General observation on Porsches

[snowman]

Guys, if you are having heart failure, because of parts prices, if your Porsche might have blown up, maybe, just maybe you should be looking at Miatas. This is not ment to be a snobish rebuff, but a practical one. A Porsche is a well designed, well engineered, high performance auto. Cost was and is a consideration for Porsche owners, but RELATIVE to a F16 fighter jet! What that means it that you should not be expected to expend unlimited dollars for whatever it takes to do the job, but REASONABLE dollars, and reasonable means on a typical MDs income, not a typical paper boys income.

The real quesiton is WHAT IS A REASONABLE price for a typical MDs income??

Thats a really tough one. If you like Chevys, and say reasonable is say $2k to rebuild an engine, well... what year chevy it it?

An old chevy will cost maybe $1500 to rebuild, but a NEW, 2004 Chevy will cost over $7,000 to rebuild, ie MORE than a typical older Porsche!!!

A newer Porsche, ie 85 to 90 may be in the $15K range to rebuild, a current Porsche in the $30K plus range, and that may be even if you do it yourself!!

So whats my point, already??? Well I think it is this, if one or two $k prices give you heart failure, get a Miata. If not consider the Porsche. Just a reality check for people who want to consider one of the best values on the car market, a Porsche.

My question is: Whats your take on this subject? Am I right on or off base? This is an important consideration for newbees, a reality check. Nothing is more heartbreaking than something that you thought you could afford, but could not.

Why is this not snobbish?, Its just a reality check, a real , necessary check, so that people will not expect to much for to little. Once you know you can pass the threshold, you can really start to enjoy your passion.

OOPs please move this to the off topics forum, sorry.

[Jim Richards]

and reasonable means on a typical MDs income

Huh? We're all Doctors?

As far as the basic point you're making...if you can't afford a Porsche, buy something cheaper...that's common sense. However, there is some emotion involved in Porsche ownership, too, eh?

[andycook]

Hmmm, interesting post. I think most of the complaints regarding the costs associated with a Porsche is relative to what you are actually getting. Do they cost more, H*ll yeah. Is there justification, not my place to say. Are they worth it, I'll finish that one after I finish my rebuild. Not everyone has bottomless pockets to expend on our dream cars. If we did, who would continue to revive the older Porsches? Wouldn't it be easier to just buy something newer that didn't need work? I personnaly sought out a 911 that needed work because that is what I could afford at the time. If I hadn't purchased the car, it was destined to be stripped and made into a track car. I couldn't let that happen.
We all complain as to the costs, human nature. It's all relative.
How does that saying go, The meek shall inherit the Earth...Well in this case, it may be said that the less fortunate will inherit the Porsches.
We all need to start somewhere. As for the emotion involved with owning a Porsche, most definitely. Even the rustiest, broken, dog ugly P-car can make it's owner feel better, becasue it's a Porsche, and they own it. I say good night to mine every day!! Just my two cents.
P.S. And I DO own a Miata also...............

[jgparker]

Hey, 911s and Miatas are both great in their own way. I'd take either one over Lumina or a mini-van any day. I can abuse my Miata all day long and not feel guilty. I can also get a crate motor for it for a fraction of the cost of a DIY 911 rebuild. On the other hand, I would not want to show up at a Sebring DE, or a Polo match at Windsor with anything but a 911...

JP

[85Gold]

JP

I go to Windsor with a Toyota PU truck, no snob here. Of course I haven't been to a Polo match since I got my P-car.

Along the cost of ownership I look at a Porsche like my boat, the initial buy-in is only a fraction of the overall cost of ownership over time. I agree that many people can afford the initial cost but run short on funds when major problems arise. This is not a hobby for weak wallet.

But I like my toys so I pay to play

Peter

[HarryD]

A thought to consider.

If you drove your family van the way you drive your Porsche, would you see the same maintenance costs? In some ways, I think so.

[Pettybird]

Isn't this why 928's in particular have such a bad rap?

same deal with 1st gen 750iL's... the maintainance costs are absurd.

A big problem with Porsches is that there aren't enough of them to develop a profitable, wide-based aftermarket following. I mean, if you own a Buick, and you spec out NOTHING but Buick parts in AC Delco boxes, from your dealer, that's not going to be cheap, either. With Porsche, if it's not from Porsche, or the OEM supplier, it's most likely a rare restoration part or a hack job no one buys. Go to Autozone or whatever and ask to se where a lot of parts come from--Porsche people are picky and don't want to use Mexican or Chinese parts on their cars (which is completely understandable). The quality gap between OEM and aftermarket is usually huge. If there were more midlevel parts for wear replacement, I'm sure that these car would run just as well with them. If my Mustang needs a tie rod, it's in stock at any parts store. If my Porsche needs one, it's Pelican, AA/Vertex/etc, or the dealer.

The worst part about the Mustang tie rod? It was made in Canada...

I just don't trust those people.

-Doug

[Pettybird]

An addendum to the aftermarket parts thing...

I worked at an AutoZone, and the prices on some of the newer electrical parts are just about as high as Porsche. We sold 4 wire OBDII sensors for upwards of $130, OE GM Plugs are $6 each...

'91 Cavalier, needs brakes and O2 sensor... $13/rotor, $10 pads, and $19.99 for the O2

'01 Cavalier, needs brakes and O2 sensor...$25/rotor, $18 pads, and $79 for the front, $75 for the rear O2's...

keep in mind that you toss the rotors EVERY PAD CHANGE on the new cars- there's no real reason to keep them as they're almost certainly too thin to turn.

complexity=cost.
age=cost.

Between the 911 and the three nearly identical Mopars below, I'm not sure which costs more to take care of. Old cars need parts, regardless of make.

_doug

[HarryD]

I just had a few gaskets replaced on my 1996 Windstar. My wallet was $1,200 lighter. Why? massive labor to access the $20.00 gaskets.

[Pettybird]

COMMON problem with those Windstars... Poor cooling issues, I think.

If you left it unfixed, it could sit next to our Chrysler van with the standard blown transmission.

Doug

[HarryD]

Originally posted by Pettybird
COMMON problem with those Windstars... Poor cooling issues, I think.

If you left it unfixed, it could sit next to our Chrysler van with the standard blown transmission.

Doug

Supposedly this was an issue with the 1994-95 models and fixed with the 1996's. Apparently not in mine tho'. sigh....

[Tim Walsh]

Ahh yes 2 two worst things a car could do.. head gaskets and transmissions.


I just put had to put $800 towards my DD oldsmobile for blown intake manifold gaskets and it's still trying to overheat on me.. not fun.

[HarryD]

Originally posted by l33t9eek
Ahh yes 2 two worst things a car could do.. head gaskets and transmissions.


I just put had to put $800 towards my DD oldsmobile for blown intake manifold gaskets and it's still trying to overheat on me.. not fun.

Tim,

I would have felt beeter if it was a head gasket but is was an intake gasket and a sealing gasket in the cam cover that required total disassembly of the water pump end of the motor to get to. I just love the detroit design philosophy of install once/repair never!

[Pettybird]

Yipes not cool... The head gaskets are equal opportunity, too-- they blow on the Nissan 3.0's AND the Ford 3.8's. Swami sez for $1200 you have the Nissan motor... Did it warp the heads, too? It's a popular result. I had a customer come in to Autozone when I worked there last year that spent the better part of 2 months trying to get his done--He'd come in twice a week for something new, and he had to get rebuilt heads as his were warped beyond repair... Truly a fun car.

Chrysler V6 cars eat transmissions like it's their job. So do Tauruses prior to like '98. We've had both go bad.

And they're the DD's, too--I'm all psyched to to a partial drop (or maybe even just pull the thing out for cleaning) to fix oil leaks, install new HE's, install sway bar bushings... I've got a 4cyl DD that needs a 20 minute valve cover gasket job, and it probably won't happen this year.

They're supposed to run forever, for free. What happened to that agreement?

-Doug

[Pettybird]

You definitely have the rice motor in there... Chryler/Mitsu designed 3.0 cars require intake manifold removal to replace a water pump... how's that? New 2.4 twin cam Chev/Pontiac requires removal of intake and exhaust manifolds to change said pump.

Bring back the flathead Ford!

[Tim Walsh]

frankly give me a chevy v8 dirt cheap parts, everyone knows how to work on them and reliable as anything save a honda.

[Pettybird]

Too many Chevys--How about Mopars?

[jgparker]

Am I the only one who loves working on 911s, and loathes working on the daily drivers? I don't know why, but it's night and day for me. Just feals like a chore rather than a hobby.

JP

[Tim Walsh]

I love working on 911's and loath everything else. It's only the rust that prevents me from driving it everyday. So yes I'm in the same boat.

[Pettybird]

No no, I do that, too. It's the difference between maintainance and restoration. I don't exactly lie awake at night dreaming of the next 911 oil change, but I'm certainly happier to do a pedal cluster rebuild than front brakes on the regular cars. School doesn't end until May, but I've already got lots of projects lined up. With four classics rolling around, it's a tough juggle, but when you throw in some minor repair to something else, it's a definitlety a chore.

Doug