Thanks guys, your input is great. It's still a wait and see situation as the tune-up shop hasn't finished some other work at this point. When I get the car back I was thinking of having the rebuild shop adjust the valves.

BTW. My history and login data apparently vanished and I am now a newbie??

WoW. If your engine runs, which sounds doubtfull, given that a 3 foot breaker bar will not turn it over, your valves are the least of your worries. Go back to the rebuilder. If he adjusts the valves, and it starts and seems to run ok , its probably ok. If the starter isn't truning it over, then well there just may be a problem. Could be as small as a bad starter. to as bad as glass beads binding up on the crank (worst case bad) . But in any case go the rebuilder first, then if it don't run post what happened.

That's why I'm confused. The engine was running very well and in fact it didn't even sound like the lifters needed adjusting. The car was in the tune-up shop for almost 2 weeks before I called and was informed of the their inability to adjust the valves and the mechanic sez to me, "so you still want to do the other work on the car?" Sometimes you have to ask if these guys walk to work or bring their lunch!

I should have gone to Henry Schmidt of SUPERTEC PERFORMANCE

Time to fess up
 

Well I stopped by my tuneup mechanic's shop to see how my car was doing and got a little good news. He said he was able to adjust the valves. He still says the tightness is do to the lack of line boring. He also said that when he took one of the valve covers off a head nut fell off. He said it was because the engine builder ran the bolt too far into the block.

The engine builder was Motor Meister and the tuneup mechanic is Renn-Tech in Auburn (nothern California)

I'm just thankfull I don't have to spend another $3,000!!!!

Heed the warnings that have already been posted - if the engine is tight to turn over, something is WRONG. I know you've already probably spent a lot of money on this, but you should honestly consider tearing the engine apart again and either rebuilding it yourself after having the machine work done by someone competent, or having a respected builder put the motor together for you. (You have run a search here on Motor Meister by now haven't you? If not, do so, and you'll see plenty of other examples of bodged engines).

I'm willing to make a gentleman's bet of $1 that you've already got main bearings showing copper.

search moter meister....good luck with that one....

Re: Time to fess up
 

Not yet anyway. At an absolute MINIMUM I'd send my oil out for oil-analysis from one of the chem places that do this. If the above suspicions are correct (and unless the car was in gear they are) then I'm guessing you'll find a lot of bearing material.

I've never done business with Motor Meister, but I've met a number of people who have, and have nothing but bad to say about them from those people.

You'll know soon enough. If the crank really is binding you'll likely see a major drop in oil-pressure as a bearing spins or wears out itself and/or your crank, or a JUMP in oil-pressure as the oil-journal gets covered by shifting bearing material...

Better to find out the easy way rather than the expensive way.

Re: Time to fess up
 

I believe you just answered your own question.

This is a shame. I'll bet the motor was shipped from SoCal to NorCal and installed there. Is this correct? Then you won't probably be driving down to MM to get any advice. You might not make it if you do.

Now I'm not a motor builder, but I have been around cars for a few years ;) Your best bet at this point is to not drive the car and find out what is really going on. Spark plugs out and oil analysis.

This is the time to start documenting everything that is going on. EVERYTHING. Go back the two weeks and get it all down. Times, dates and places. The one thing you have going for you is that you live in the same state as the builder. You can resolve this in small claims court if you have to. MM has some responsiblility by law. Don't screw anything up at this point. Take very measured steps from here on until you know what's what.

Better check with Nolo Press and order a book or two. Or see an attorney to map out your process. One misstep and you will loose precious advantage. Best of luck to you.

Oh, BTW. Forget the search. It will just depress you. Get on the ball.

may be some one are using the braker bar into the alternator nut, duh!!! the belt will slipt!!!

With this and any other warranty related problem or question, I would recommend at the very least discussing the problem with the engine builder.
I have had my own problems with warranty related issues and you might be surprised by MM's response. Who knows, they might stand behind their work. At the very least you should give them a chance to make things right.

Given that I don't have a high paying job, I think the reasonable thing to do is to drive the car until something breaks. One could spend an additional $3,000 to $4,000 to find out that there isn't a problem. And if there is a problem (based on my experience) it won't cost too much more to fix whatever breaks. Bear in mind that the question is "who do you believe?" I agree with "Better to find out the easy way rather than the expensive way" I can't be certain that the tune-up mechanic is 100% correct any more than I can't be certain that there is a problem. I'm certainly not sufficiently knowledgeable enough to make a decision to spend any large sums of money at this time. Lastly, this project has taken over 5 years to complete and I am just now beginning to enjoy the thrill and excitement of driving a 911 which I almost forgot. In the meantime, I'll post updates. Perhaps we can get a pool going on if and when the engine will crash and burn.

Regardless of what happens I do appreciate the input - thanks guys!

Did you try and turn the engine yourself? Try that, see if it turns easy or hard. If it turns hard, then I'll predict that you will get less than 3000 miles on it. At that time, the crank will be gone, the case will be leaking, and you can plan on throwing the engine away. You can then pick up a used 3.0 with computer (approximately $4500) and have a much better engine.

Michael

QUOTE..........and you can plan on throwing the engine away. You can then pick up a used 3.0 with computer (approximately $4500) and have a much better engine.

UNLESS THE USED 3.0 IS AS DEAD AS YOUR 2.7
I have resently purchased 2 good used 3.0 engines, one was in a wrecked car, (you'd think if it was running when it crashed......) and the other "resently rebuilt." Both were junk.
My 76 911 has a rebuilt 2.7

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1098815806.jpg

Sorry to say that every Motor Meister motor I've ever seen was either sitting in a car (not running) in the back of a shop, or on an engine stand. Invariably (I was in the market for a new engine), I'd ask about it and they'd say: You don't want that engine, it's a piece of junk. The last one I saw was actually rebuilt by Motor Meister 3 times and still doesn't work right, according to my buddy who owns Newport Motorsports, my local P-car shop.

Now, hopefully everything will turn out in your favor, who knows. The engine might run OK, etc. BUT:

I'm no expert by any means, but I'd see about getting a lawyer involved and follow that suggestion about documentation of the whole process for sure.

JCM

Long board,

STOP. Think clearly about what you are doing. As several have said, what you do now will profoundly affect the ultimate outcome. I’ll bet there are some Pelican California attorneys who will offer some pro bono (free) advice.
Small Claims Court just takes your time but costs you very little money.

As many have said:
Don’t drive the car.
Document everything. Save every scrap of paper and your phone records.
Start yourself a list of every contact and write down your recollection of what was said.
Have the tune-up shop write a DETAILED report of what they found and what they did. Pay them something extra for the time and effort.
Have a 3rd (4th) party independently verify the engine is “too tight.”
Get an oil analysis.
Contact the builder in writing and ask what his policy is and procedures for warranty claims. Just ask questions, don’t provide information other than there is potentially an unknown problem and what the symptoms are. If you get a positive response, you might provide them with the report from the tune-up shop.

Some things I’m not clear about:
Did the tune-up shop doing the service originally sub-contract out the rebuild?
Did you get a written warranty?
Do you have copies of everything you signed from all the shops?
Does California Small Claims Court allow for “discovery”?

The rebuild shop defenses might be that you caused the problem by something you did or something necessary that you did not do. They could also claim it was the tune-up shop’s fault.

There are issues here that only a California attorney or para-legal can answer. I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice.

Sorry for your distress. I hope it all works out.

Best,
Grady

In CA the shop ALWAYS looses. No need for evidence, just make up a number, ie how much you want, and take them to small claims court. If you live in a commie state you might as well take atvantage of its benefits.

On the other hand, based on some of the comments that follow, and just common sense, you should first send a written complaint to MM detailing what has happened, basicallly what you originally said on this thread. Let MM have a stab at correcting any potential problem and see what they do. If you do not do this step you do not even have the right to complain, let alone a warrenty.

By the way letting a Porsche engine run till it breaks is only for the Big Bucks crowd who got more money than brains. If the motor turned easy originally, IT ISN'T a line bore problem. If the line bore was bad, the engine would have been tightest on the first startup, and loostened up thereafter, but will not get tighter. Since your valves have been adjusted you can rule out anything to do with mis adjusted valves. That pretty much leaves a couple of possibilities. They are related to oiling and debre in the oil passages. If the oil squirters are not working or one is plugged up it is possible for a cylinder to be getting to hot and scoring. This could be checked cheeply with a bore scope. Another possibility I have seen personally is debre in the oil, speciffically glass beads. Originally the engine will turn over ok, but as time goes on more and more beads will work loose from their hiding places and lodge in the crank. This causes a large gouge to start to develop in one or all the throws and the rods as well. If it is glass beads and the engine is run to long it will completely ruin beyond any hope of repair the rods, the cylinders, the crank, the lifters, the cams, the oil pump. Even throwing a rod completely thru the side of the case cannot match the distruction that glass beads can cause. HOw likely is it glass beads were used, I would bet 50/50 chance. Good Porsche machine shops refuse to glass bead engine cases and certain other critical parts that cannot be completely cleaned. If may have not even been MM fault! IE they may have taken in an engine that had just been hacked up and unknowingly put a time bomb back togather.

PS Even though it may not be thru no fault of their own, MM would still be RESPONSIBLE for the engine and its condition, just one of the shortcommings of being in business, sometimes you just got to eat it. TO me any engine that was doing anything wrong and had less than 20K miles on it would be a concern. If the problem happens near the bottom end of the 20 K its something wrong with the rebuild. IF its near the end of the 20K its still likely something wrong with the rebuild but the engine maintainence and operation deserves very close inspection as well.

And Longboard,

If you are on a tight budget-- do not drive your car-- untill its fixed, otherwise you will end up with a basket case within 6000 miles. You may have already run the engine to long to save it, but you stand a more than even chance, at this point, of coming out even with the engine rebuilder. DO NOT DRIVE THE THING UNTILL THE problem is resolved or until MM tells you, in writting to drive it until it breaks.

Jack,

As Henry said, it is always better to work out these issues. No shop is perfect and no engine has perfectly predictable outcome. That is why there is a Factory warranty even with all new components.

I have no personal knowledge of any of the parties. This Forum seems to relate many unfavorable anecdotes about the engine rebuild shop. Any prudent consumer should be concerned as how many difficulties are there and how/if they were resolved. I’m sure someone can search on various California sites (BBB, courts, consumer, etc.) and get a wealth of information.

My sole reason for chiming in is that long board seems to need some clear headed guidance. When someone is in the heat of a difficulty, I think it is incumbent on others to “smooth the water” and help have clear thinking on all sides.

Best,
Grady

Driving it until it blows will always cost more than correcting the issue before it gets any worse.

Go over to the parts board and see how much cases, cranks and rods cost if you don't believe us.

If you break down the motor yourself and it only needs minor machining work you arn't out a lot of money, just the cost of the gasket set, machining work and possibly a bearings and having your crank polished depending on the damage.

I think that longboard should get a second opinion before launching into a crusade. Have several people turn the engine over by hand. Compare to other 911s. Maybe he doesn't have a problem.

If the crank is "slightly" stiff it may not cause much damage. This is strictly a guess on my part. Maybe you guys that have built alot of engines have seen damaged main bearings due to case misalignment. The forces exerted by the flexing of the crankshaft and crankcase on the main bearings at 7000 RPM are probably many times greater than those of a slight static misalignment.

So my question is has anyone dismantled an engine that had an improper case alignment and only a few thousand miles or less on it and seen bearing damage that wasn't related to other defects such as dirt in engine when assembled. First had knowledge only please and no speculation.

-Andy