Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 Engine Rebuilding Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
hbrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 585
Garage
Crushed Copper shims!?

When disassembling my engine, I found the copper shims crushed and squized out at the bottom of the cylinders.

What can I replace those soft copper shims with??

One more please:

Are this Mahle or JE pistons?
__________________
Cheers

1973 Porsche 911T RS
1978 Porsche 911SC
Old 12-27-2004, 03:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Autobahn Garage
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,546
Those are copper base gaskets I think the host sells them. There not very expensive. The piston look like a Mahle to me I may be wrong? But I don't think so? Get Wanyes book: How to rebuild and mod your 911 engine, All your questions will be answered
__________________
T Tanner
76, 911s w/ Webers
76, 914/4
57, Speedster

Last edited by tab tanner; 12-27-2004 at 05:28 PM..
Old 12-27-2004, 05:24 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Autobahn Garage
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1,546
I just saw that you bought the book! Good going
__________________
T Tanner
76, 911s w/ Webers
76, 914/4
57, Speedster
Old 12-27-2004, 05:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
hbrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 585
Garage
Hello wayne
will post more piston pictures tomorro.
because of the crushed and slipped out cooper shims, the cylinders leaked at the cylinder head. So I gues i can only use the most thick once I can buy.

Can I post all the parts I need to order here and you give my the part numbers, or can your sales people handle zb ring set 92mm, 1.5x1.5x3mm, turbo cylinder head gaskets for 2.7 turbo

thanks, harold
__________________
Cheers

1973 Porsche 911T RS
1978 Porsche 911SC
Old 12-27-2004, 06:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
kstylianos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,045
Send a message via Yahoo to kstylianos
Harold,

I wouldnt 'use the most thick once I can buy' as shim thickness needs to be selected to bring your deck heights to spec (you'll find this info in the book). The shims you posted are not typical....they appear to have been reused, installed incorrectly or the head studs possibly over torqued. In any case, not typical. You should be fine using the the correct thickness coppper shims, making sure your case and cylinder bases are flush and keeping the head studs torqued to spec.

BTW: Pistons do not apperar to be JE.
__________________
Charlie Stylianos
1982 SC Targa
www.Dorkiphus.com - (The Land of the NoVA/DC/MD Porschephiles)

Last edited by kstylianos; 12-27-2004 at 09:31 PM..
Old 12-27-2004, 09:27 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
Jeff Alton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Langley,B.C.
Posts: 10,208
Them there look like Mahle's. not JE.
__________________
Turn3 Autosport- Full Service and Race Prep
jeff@turn3autosport.com
997 S 4.0, Cayman S 3.8, Boxster 2.7, Boxster S race car, 996, 955 Cayenne TT, 958 Cayenne TT
Old 12-27-2004, 10:29 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Author of "101 Projects"
 
Wayne 962's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by hbrand
Can I post all the parts I need to order here and you give my the part numbers, or can your sales people handle zb ring set 92mm, 1.5x1.5x3mm, turbo cylinder head gaskets for 2.7 turbo
There is no such thing as a 2.7 turbo. Is this that engine that you bought on eBay? Did you bolt a Turbo on it? With single plug and 11.5:1 compression? If yes, then it's no wonder the thing fell apart. Now I'm really confused.

Those cylinder base gaskets don't just get like that. This engine was beat to hell, potentially from detonation? Then perhaps the head studs pulled and the cylinders got loose and banged around the copper base gaskets. You just don't see that when tearing down an engine, unless the whole thing was imploding...

-Wayne
__________________
Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of:
101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997 SPEED READ: Porsche 911 (October 2018)

Check out our new site: Dempsey Motorsports
Old 12-27-2004, 11:56 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
hbrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 585
Garage
I hate turbo engines.
My thought was if the head is leaking I can work on the surefaces and install some kind of head gaskets. some members said the turbos had them - but that would be 3.o ltr and they would not work on my 2.8 ltr
I do not know how this engine was run by its former owner, all I want this engine to be is a fast long lasting stret engine.
thanks, harold
__________________
Cheers

1973 Porsche 911T RS
1978 Porsche 911SC
Old 12-28-2004, 06:41 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Super Moderator
 
cstreit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Naperville, IL USA
Posts: 13,086
Garage
WHat's with the cast looking surface on those pistons though, haven't seen that before on a Mahle piston.
__________________
Chris
----------------------------------------------
2008 Yamaha R6
2001 GT3 Cup - "Pepin"
1999 Spec Miata
1996 993 RS Replica
1971 Norton 750 Commando
Alcon Brake Kits
Old 12-28-2004, 10:22 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
hbrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 585
Garage
More piston pictures. Mahle or J E??
__________________
Cheers

1973 Porsche 911T RS
1978 Porsche 911SC
Old 12-28-2004, 01:00 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Author of "101 Projects"
 
Wayne 962's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by hbrand
I hate turbo engines.
My thought was if the head is leaking I can work on the surefaces and install some kind of head gaskets. some members said the turbos had them - but that would be 3.o ltr and they would not work on my 2.8 ltr
I do not know how this engine was run by its former owner, all I want this engine to be is a fast long lasting stret engine.
thanks, harold
If this was the other motor you're talking about, it's not ever going to be a long-lasting engine, if you keep it in this config. 11.5:1 - nothing long-lasting about that, particularly with a magnesium case.

Take a look again at some of the chapters in the book, and that should help you decide what to do.

These pistons look forged to me - they look very much like Mahle RSR style pistons. They don't look like any JE pistons I've ever seen. The JE pistons I've seen are all machined across the top of the cylinder. These tops (minus the pockets) were forged.

-Wayne
__________________
Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of:
101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997 SPEED READ: Porsche 911 (October 2018)

Check out our new site: Dempsey Motorsports
Old 12-28-2004, 01:06 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered User
 
hbrand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 585
Garage
Thanks wayne, first will determine the compression ratio I have and the zero in for about 10.

Will post nice pictures soon.

Thanks, harold
__________________
Cheers

1973 Porsche 911T RS
1978 Porsche 911SC
Old 12-28-2004, 02:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
Author of "101 Projects"
 
Wayne 962's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by hbrand
Thanks wayne, first will determine the compression ratio I have and the zero in for about 10.

Will post nice pictures soon.

Thanks, harold
If this is that 2.7 engine, I would assume nothing and measure everything...

-Wayne
__________________
Wayne R. Dempsey, Founder, Pelican Parts Inc., and Author of:
101 Projects for Your BMW 3-Series 101 Projects for Your Porsche 911 How to Rebuild & Modify Porsche 911 Engines 101 Projects for Your Porsche Boxster & Cayman 101 Projects for Your Porsche 996 / 997 SPEED READ: Porsche 911 (October 2018)

Check out our new site: Dempsey Motorsports
Old 12-28-2004, 02:20 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Banned
 
snowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: So California
Posts: 3,787
Something banged the hell out of these copper spacers. Nothing std or within spec could cause this type of damage. And it is DAMAGE, big time. Do not put this thing back togather without finding out exactly what caused this.
Old 12-28-2004, 09:35 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,031
Looks like 'fretting' caused by loose cylinders (pulled headstuds or undertorqued head nuts).
Old 12-29-2004, 10:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Banned
 
snowman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: So California
Posts: 3,787
rcwaldo stated the most likely cause.

Question- could this also be caused by pre ignition? In other words head studs pulled or stretched due to extreem pressure generated by pre ignition due to high compression ratio. See Waynes comments above.

In any case I would use only copper shims on rebuild. Thick copper shims are available if needed.

Long lasting street engine? CR on a Porsche is effectively about 1 point higher than on a water cooled engine according to Bruce Andersons book. Using premium gas with an ignition that includes knock detection would seem to limit the CR to 9.8:1. Otherwise without the knock detector to maybe 9.3 to one max. Thats for long lasting.

Your case almost certainly needs to be re decked as well.

Last edited by snowman; 12-30-2004 at 04:52 PM..
Old 12-30-2004, 04:40 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:53 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.