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Kolibri
 
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Engine on stand.. pics!

I just put my engine on the stand for the fist time ever.


.

I was wondering how far the two bolts that hold that ring on are supposed to thread into the case? I left about 15mm-20mm out before turning in like this much ---> <---
So two bolts are holding that thing in the air with about 20mm of thread. IS that right?

MIchael
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Old 01-30-2005, 06:07 PM
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I think one bolt is more than enouth. These are very big bolts and can hold the weight of the entire car, let along the engine. Two threads should be enough to hold anything. The engine stand is clearly a heavy duty Kragen or PeP Boys special. If it holds Detroit Iron it certainly will hold a Porsche engine.

Any one else game to comment on this engine stand? Or should I suggest doing a search on engine stands? Or is this guy trying to pull someones chain?

Last edited by snowman; 01-30-2005 at 08:28 PM..
Old 01-30-2005, 08:25 PM
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Kolibri
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by snowman
Any one else game to comment on this engine stand? Or should I suggest doing a search on engine stands? Or is this guy trying to pull someones chain? [/B]
me?
How would I be pulling your chain? I bought this engine stand at harbor fright. It says it can hold 1000lbs. I have no fear that the engine stand can hold it, but rather the 8 or 10mm bolts. The case has had helicoils put in at all three of those mounting holes, with one sole stud left int he bottom left. I was so worried that last night I pulled the top bolt ( while back on the jack ) and took two washers out, and reinserted. Its in by at least 35mm. I feel better.

here is a picture to illustrate my fears.. This is where a helicoil pulled out when I installed the flywheel lock tool.


Michael
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Old 01-31-2005, 04:06 AM
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The minimum bolt thread depth should be equal to the bolt diameter. If the bolt shaft dia is 10mm you need at least 10mm of thread engagement to be safe.
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Old 01-31-2005, 04:40 AM
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Thanks asphaltgamber. IT just feels a little waek in comaprison to the heavy steel of the rest of the fixture. The engine stand ring was massive and sturdy, only to have it connect using these spindly little bolts in a mag case. I can't wait to relieve some of the stress of the engine by getting the carbs, heads, p/cs off there. I am taking pictures of the whole thing for a nice web tutorial to come.

MIchael
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Old 01-31-2005, 04:56 AM
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In this case the bolt shear point is not torsional twist but constant vertical load. To be safe here you would want to engage as much thread as possible, trying to run the shoulder of the bolt firmly to the case.
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Old 01-31-2005, 05:10 AM
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Just as a counterpoint - I had a similar setup - mag motor on a stand with helicoiled studs. The helicoils puked and dumped the engine on the floor. Missed my foot by a nanosecond.

Helicoils will never be installed in anything of mine that has to bear a critical load.
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Old 01-31-2005, 05:30 AM
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when did they puke? at the time of install? or after a while?
I have my engine cart jacked up and taking some of the load at night. Just want to get the heavy stuff off and just have the case on there. Then I can split the case... etc. Just want to use the stand's ability to hold the whole load at the vey beginning and final assembly....
Like I said I have the cart actually supporting some of the weight at night right now. Cal me a nervous nellie...

Michael
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Old 01-31-2005, 05:41 AM
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When I talked to the mechanic at my local Porsche dealer he said that it had happed that the bolts had pulled out. And that was with a proper engine stand and fixture. He didnt say if it had been mag cases or not.
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Old 01-31-2005, 08:19 AM
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gulp... scary. I don't want to buy any MORE new parts for this engine. WHo needs 3-400 lbs falling to the floor?
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Old 01-31-2005, 08:21 AM
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Awesome, glad to see you're progressing. You can cut a piece of 2x4 and stick between the bottom of the case and the engine stand at the front part of the engine. That should help you sleep a little!

Good luck and have fun!
BK
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Old 01-31-2005, 10:14 AM
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not a bad idea... Call me
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Old 01-31-2005, 10:20 AM
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I would use 1.5 times the thread dialmeter for the thread depth.
Usually the first few threads in a tapped hole can be worn or corodded.
I have used that stand with a big block Chevy before (680 lbs)
and its scary. I cut a 4x4 to hold up the front of the engine, just in case.
A properly installed heli-coil will be stronger than the original tapped hole.
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Old 01-31-2005, 11:00 AM
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Please do a search of this forum on engine stands, the subject has been thoroughly beat to death many times before. Get a proper holder for the engine, the stand is secondary.

As to helicoils, I would rather have them than not. They are much stronger than the original threads for many reasons. Time serts are even better and more commonly used in Mag cases. If a helicoil pulled out it did so on a much larger diameter than the original bolt, ie it took more to break it, somewhat puzzeling in general, unless they were improperly installed.
Old 01-31-2005, 08:44 PM
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snowman. I was not asking about engine stands. My engine is already ON the stand. THe thread talks about the amount of weight placed on the helicoils. Ive been around for a while. I know to search first. Try to do a search on helicoil threads pulling out of a case while installing the PROPER ring per instructions. I am following Waynes book and buying all parts from Wayne. But someone here could save me the trouble of having to repair or replace an engine falling to the floor. Two people suggested a block of wood to be safe.

michael
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Old 02-01-2005, 04:07 AM
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Michael,
The helicoils gave up after the engine had been on the stand for a few days. It was a naked long block mag case 2.4, no ancillaries.

I see that you have the proper adapter ring in there. Yep, no worries about your stand configuration. I think Jack just missed the adapter...

How are you feeling about the setup, honestly? Keep in mind that disassembly isn't so bad, but there are a few times when you'll be putting a bit of stress on the mount during disassembly, and you don't want to have a no-confidence vote on the threads. Perhaps you could pull the motor back off the stand and re-do the inserts with some time-serts?
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Old 02-01-2005, 06:03 AM
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I have always used the wood support under the stand when unattended even on aluminum cases with good threads. Just made me feel better to do so.
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Old 02-01-2005, 06:36 AM
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Now you got me worried big time...

My engine had been sitting on the stand, with good thread & the Porsche fixture, for a few months now - working on the transmission. Maybe I should simply lower it onto a work horse/table?
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Old 02-01-2005, 12:33 PM
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I could suggest a proper Porsche engine mount. With that the engine will not fall on the floor with or without the helicoils.
Old 02-01-2005, 09:52 PM
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Jack: Hobieboy said that he had the Porsche engine mount.
And as I posted earlier, I have heard from an mechanic that he have had studs pulled out WITH a proper Porsche engine mount.
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Old 02-01-2005, 11:22 PM
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