Oil From Left Side Exhaust Ports

[thebng]

Picked up an unknown 3.0. Valves were adjusted fine, no studs pulled. No debris in oil or valve covers. When I cranked it to start it up for roughly 30 seconds, I noticed about 1/2 to 1 quart of oil spewing out of the left side exhaust. I know a tear down is going to be in the works. Any theories as to what could be the problem before I pull this motor and pull the top end off? I am suspecting either a holed piston or no rings in my number 1 but I haven't run a compression test yet. Ideas anyone?

[Fast Corners]

Forget the compression test. Go right to a leak down test. This will give you more information regarding the condition of the rings and valves. Listen for where the air is escaping from. Crank case breather=rings and/or piston, out of the exaust or intake indicates a problem with the valves.

Is it possible that the previous owner tried to pickle the engine by filling the cylinders with oil or some other fluid? It seems doubtful since it only occured on one bank of cylinders. Did the oil clear-up after a while or was it pretty constant.

Oil blowing out the exhaust is a really really bad sign...especially in the quantity you are claiming. Give the excessive quantity, I would guess a holed or broken piston. Good luck.

[dtw]

I've started a few engines that have had extended time sitting, like 2+ years. They have always blown a lot of smoke and oil out the exhaust, due to the heat exchangers slowly filling up with oil. This has numerous side benefits, such as preventing your exhaust from rusting out, killing all mosquitos in the neighborhood, and making your neighbors think twice before approaching you.

I agree with the above, a leakdown test should be done on any 'unknown' motor before starting, but if it passes that, let the engine warm up and run it...you've probably just got a lot of oil to burn off. Some will suggest a midnight drive 'Italian tune-up style' to blow all the oil out under cover of darkness...

Let us know how it works out

[thebng]

I concur with the leakdown test. I picked up a leakdown tester this afternoon and will post the numbers tonight. If it is just the rings (hopefully) then I could get by with a top end rebuild. I never thought I would ever say that one! Holed piston I don't want to think about. I had put oil in the cylinders myself when storing but not that much! It is a bad sign when you put in ten quarts and end up two short after cranking the engine over!

[Fast Corners]

"I had put oil in the cylinders myself when storing but not that much! It is a bad sign when you put in ten quarts and end up two short after cranking the engine over!"

Ah ha...new information... :-)

Was it possible that one of the valves was open when you put oil in the cylinders for storage? If so maybe the oil comming out of the exhaust was due to that. I hope so. You have to be careful when doing that. It is not hard to hydro lock a motor and do something really expensive to fix.

The next question is did you put 10 quarts in the case by itself or did you fill up with 10 quarts into the oil tank? 10 Quarts in the case itself is way, way too much. This would have likely submerged a portion of the cylinders in oil. The rings are designed to seal but not fully seal the bore. If the engine had sat with that much oil in it I would expect a large quantity to seep past the rings. and into the cylinders. If the engine was stored in a non-level condition, the left bank may have been the only side affected.

There are lots of way to pickle a motor for storage. My favorite is kerosine which has a higher oil content than other flamible fluids but it still burns off after firing the motor.

Make sure if you crank the motor (by hand preferable) after pickling it you take the spark plugs out. This will make sure that a disasterous situation is avoided.

I'm looking forward to the leak down results.

[thebng]

I originally squirted a bit in each cylinder from my oil can about two years ago when storing after I picked it up. It was supposedly in good running condition. Anyway, I cranked it over by hand a few times every month or so to keep it moving. I had adjusted the valves and nothing in the valve covers. It was dry when I got it so I couldn't tell if there were chunks in the oil. I filled the tank up with the ten quarts and got a decent reading on the oil level gauge. Come back a few days later and oil is on the floor dripping off of the header pipe where the exhaust mates up on the left side b/c the oil is trapped insider the heat exchanger. Crank the car and it pours out of the heat exchanger. There is no exhaust on it now, just heat exchanger. I have one stripped bold on the exchanger which I will take the torch to tonight. I am assuming that it is coming from the number 1 exhaust port but we know what they say about assumptions. Will post leakdown numbers late tonight. I can't wait. Laugh.

[dtw]

I'm sticking with my money on oil in the HEs...I bet your leakdown is fine.

[thebng]

Dave, I wish you were right, but you guessed wrong on this one. The leakdown numbers are as follows.

cylinder 1=85% THAT HAS TO HURT!
cylinder 2=30%
cylinder 3=58% OUCH!
cylinder 4=65% IT HAS TO GET BETTER
cylinder 5=40%
cylinder 6=28%

So, I think I can chalk this top end up to scrap. Question is now, can I save the bottom end or just use this as a core and pick up a shortblock with some good numbers? Hmmm.... Ideas anyone?

[dtw]

Not sure yet - how much run time has it head since lying dormant? You already said you oiled the cylinders? I still say run it for a while, get it hot, then try again. Those numbers are all over the place. If it was 5/5/5/5/5/95, that'd be one thing, but those just don't make sense. I had the very similar results on a motor that sat 5 years, when I turned over a lot it sealed up perfectly. Not sure I'd be opening this one up yet. Those numbers sound like garbage to me. Do you have broken studs or any other reason to suspect this thing is trash?

[dtw]

I re-read your posts and it sounds like you've got oil leaking into the HEs from the tank REALLY quickly - 2 days is too fast. So ok, maybe broken rings here. I'm a betting man in this case, I'd still heat it up and try again. I guess I'd go ahead and pull the sump first to check for debris, though.

[thebng]

Dave,
You are right about those numbers being all over the place. I did hear bubbling from the oil tanks and some air leakage at the exhaust ports, but you might be right. Maybe I should start it up, see if the smoke clears and take some more readings just to confirm before the teardown. Afterall, it is in the car and it can't hurt anything more I suspect. When the engine is turned, there is no sounds that would lead me to believe damage. No pulled head studs, I checked them and were properly torqued. Will get some spark to the engine and see what happens and post results.

Matt

[Fast Corners]

Matt,

I'm not sure what your intention with the motor is but, If you want to keep this one here is my recommendation:

The rings and valves could be a bit rusty so they may clean up with running the engine for a while however, if they are, you wont be doing yourself any favors with regards to the condition of the cylinder walls.

If after running it and performing another leak down test which shows poor results I would consider the engine for a total rebuild (bottom end too) or use as a core. I would pull the induction and exhaust off the motor and check the ports if they are wet. This coupled with the leak down are going to tell you alot about the overall condition of the motor. If you are looking to use this as a street engine, I would use this one as a core and purchase a rebuilt unit from a reputable engine builder. These can be purchased fairly cost effectively when compared to a total rebuild by a shop.

If you are familiar with engine rebuilding and have a machine shop that you can work with, you may consider rebuilding the unit yourself. The 3.0 case is excellent so it should be in good shape there. Everything elso should be inspected and reconditioned as necessary.

If you are going for performance upgrades, I would get Wayne's book and make a project out of this motor. Few things are more satisfying than running a motor on the track that you built yourself. If you go this route, be prepared to spend more. Wayne's book outlines the costs associated with the rebuild process.

[thebng]

Fast Corners,
My intention is just to get this 2.7 on the road and be relatively reliable. Nothing too earthshattering as far as performance. You might be right as far as the rings sticking up b/c of sitting. I can tell you to my knowledge, it has been sitting for at least 5 years so it is a possibility. Last night I cut the left heat exchanger off with my torch b/c the bolts were way too rusted to get off and low and behold, there must have been at least another quart in the heat exchanger. So it is a possiblity that it isn't leaking as bad as I thought and the oil was always there sitting in the exchanger. There are no thermals on this engine and no pulled studs so I am in luck there. Will get the header off tonight and check out the ports. Will also cut the other exchanger off the other side and post my finding and also pics later on in the week when I get them off.

[thebng]

Sorry to confuse, this is a 3.0 motor, not a 2.7! I have three engines kicking around, I can't keep track! Laughing