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safe's Avatar
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by cnavarro
It would be interesting for someone to take a small 911, say a 2.2t and do a build with cast iron cylinders and dyno it. Then swap cylinders to birals then again to aluminum/nikasil. No other changes would be allowed to keep the figures comparable.
You seem to own a 2.2T and plenty of Nickies
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Magnus
911 Silver Targa -77, 3.2 -84 with custom ITBs and EFI. Just works!
911T Coupe -69, 3.6, G50, "RSR", track day. Sorting out issues...
924 -79 rat roddy...
931 -79 under total restoration...
Old 10-04-2005, 06:48 AM
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Yup, but I have two other projects i'm working on that have to get finished first and my first child is on it's way at Thanksgiving. I'm told i'll never finish anything from that day on unless I get it done now :-) It's on my agenda, maybe for 2007? :-)
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Charles Navarro
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http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 10-04-2005, 06:57 AM
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Thats the problem: If its not money its time...
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Magnus
911 Silver Targa -77, 3.2 -84 with custom ITBs and EFI. Just works!
911T Coupe -69, 3.6, G50, "RSR", track day. Sorting out issues...
924 -79 rat roddy...
931 -79 under total restoration...
Old 10-04-2005, 07:33 AM
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Amen - Mangus - and congrats on the first child Charles!
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Old 10-04-2005, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eagledriver
It sounds like these JB cylinders are strong and of high quality. I don't understand what problem they are solving though. Don had his engine blow up due to detonation. Do these JB cylinders prevent detonation? Do they not become damaged when the pistons and rings fall apart due to detonation? Do they run cooler than nickasil?

Porsche found that there was less friction with Nickasil and more power. How do these steel lined cylinders compare in that area? In addition to that they seem to last forever (as long as they are not exposed to overheating or detonation.

It doesn't sound like there is much wrong with using these cylinders just don't see the advantage.

-Andy
They are solving two problems for me. First is wall thickness or strength. The bored 98mm stock cylinders could not take the punishment - keep in mind that NOTHING else was damaged. Although there are plenty of 700hp turbo motors out there with stock type cylinders, I made a different choice. The second problem it solved for me was oil blow-by. As stated earlier, my intake was covered in oil with the CIS set up, then with the EFI conversion. Not until I changed to the steel cylinders did that disappear - completely. In addition, there is no blue smoke at start up and after 500 miles, the engine has not used any significant oil (can't measure that small amount on the dip stick anyway). In the past, the stock cylinders would use a quart every 800 - 900 miles.

As for hot cylinders, I can not comment to this as the oil temps are the same as they've ever been, and the pistons squirters work sufficiently for this displacement.

One other point - I can use nearly any piston ring I want. Very convenient for a turbo application.

Rgds
Old 10-04-2005, 08:06 AM
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Another difference between biral and jb's is that the biral was actually a sleeve with the alluminum fins cast over them.

This ment as temps rose the alluminum would try to pull away from the steel cylinder becasue alluminum expands at a higher rate than steel. Once it broke free there was no more conductive cooling between the two.

JB uses an alluminum cylinder with the steel cylinder pressed in, so that they are always in compression and have contact even under high heat.

Ed
Old 10-04-2005, 10:18 AM
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http://www.jbracing.com/eng_porsche.php

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Old 10-04-2005, 11:34 AM
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Yup, they are indeed the best sleeved cylinder money can buy. There is just no comparing a JB cylinder to a factory biral. There are others out there (who we dont need to mention) that take stock cast cylinders and sleeve them, but unlike the JB cylinders, they have dissimilar materials at the mating face- have fun sealing those! It's excellent that only the sleeve and not the aluminum cylinder itself is a load bearing AND sealing surface on the JBs (as you can see in the pics Jeremy posted). Indeed, when we did birals, it took about 20 tons of force in the press we used for fitting the sleeve into the cylinder and we also figured on enough interference that it would take some 600+ degrees for the aluminum to separate from the liner. Cylinders then had to be bored out and finish honed. It's hard work to do birals right. I commend them for taking the time to engineer a quality product. It's a shame that there are so many manufacturers that regardless of product quality, don't stand behind what they sell or go to China (or insert your choice of third-world country) to do it cheap.
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Old 10-04-2005, 01:13 PM
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JB Racing Iron Sleeved Cylinders

I have noticed recently that there has been a lot of talk about the JB iron sleeved cylinders. Additional information about the cylinders and applications will be posted on the JB Racing website shortly. In the meantime, if anyone has any additional questions, please do not hesitate to call or e-mail me. I appreciate all of the positive responses about our cylinders. I would also like to take this opportunity to publicly thank Charles Navarro of LN Engineering for all of his nice comments regarding our cylinder design.
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Old 10-07-2005, 08:44 AM
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Welcome Jim - and thanks for posting.
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Old 10-07-2005, 08:51 AM
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Welcome to Pelican! Thanks Jim and it's good to have you onboard.
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Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 10-07-2005, 09:04 AM
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