3.0 DE Maintenance

[pantera]

Hi Gents, looking to purchase my first Porsche.I'm presently looking at a 2 owner 1982 SC with 116,000 miles.The body/interior are very clean.The chassis itself has a long list of high quality upgrades for track use.The owner has shown all recent receipts almost totaling $15,000 between rear axle replacements, all engine seals,tranny rebuild,K-Jetronic control unit, new clutch,suspension,brakes etc...

What concerns me is nothing major has been done internally of the engine top end or bottom.He has used the car for 17 DE events.He has religiously changed the oil after every track event using Mobile1. I've been told these engines are bullet proof but I'm still concerned.I have to think things in the top end like the valve train and heads have to be worn. No upgrades such as new head studs or cam tensioners have been done.The plugs appear to burn pretty clean and I haven't seen any tell tales of the motor burning oil.I do plan on having a PPI done.

I'd really appreciate your experienced thoughts on what I should be looking for and what I should be prepared to spend on this motor in the near future.

Thanks

[DaveE]

Definitely budget for carrera tensioners. Definitely have the head studs checked on your PPI...

[Infrared Camera]

I am by no means an expert here more like a genuine motor rebuild newbie. However, my first Porsche (bought by me around '97) was an '83 SC 110,000k on the clock. I can tell you from personal experience with my car that the SC does seem to be bulletproof. I did virtually nothing mechanical and drove this as a daily driver. In my work at the time I was traveling across the country and took the SC with me. This little guy got me from California to the midwest, through the Detroit winter, on to the muggy south in Atlanta, back to California and all points in between without so much as a hicup. After this car I adopted the bulletproof mantra and have always said I would take any SC on a road trip as long as it started, ran smooth and had oil. In fact I blame the supreme reliability of this engine for getting me in my current predicament with one '91 C2 Turbo. I basically bought the Turbo after one real quick test drive. Now I am doing a motor. Anyway thats a different story over here
1991 911 Turbo 3.3 saga (The Black B@stard)

Once again I am no expert but in my humble experience I would say that if the plugs look good, the motor runs smooth, minimal oil consumption, no leaks and most importantly still has the cigarette lighter then you may be able to take her up to 200,000k+ without a problem (unless you plan on racing which isn't clear from your post and I couldn't comment on).

I would call around for a motor rebuild quote and then factor it into the purchase price anyway and see if you would be satisfied paying that much for the car. It seems like he has already done some fairly expensive repairs/mods and I don't think it will cost anywhere near the $15,000 he has invested to do a motor.

Good luck. Your gonna love the SC.

Try Henry at supertec for a quote on motor rebuild. You can also check out a place online called LA Porsche Dismantler and they have used Porsche engines. The 3.0SC seems to run about $1000 for long block to about $4500 for a complete USED motor air cleaner to exhaust tip 72k miles.

[pantera]

DAVE E, so for reliability, chain tensioners and head studs are mandatory upgrades for the 3.0 for peace of mind? I suppose I shouldn't ask if either one of these go bad? Any idea what labor/costs are for both of these to be completed?

INFRARED CAMERA, geez cross country trips like that certainly add creditability to the bullet proof notion.

I do plan on continuing the past history of the car and do some DE events. Although DE events are not as harsh on the engine as racing they are still hard miles. I suppose I'd to know:

1) Should I expect to rebuild the top end with 116,000 miles and 17 DE events? Any idea labor/parts cost?

2)How often does the short block need attention?

I'm new to these cars and I'm experienced in the "slippery slope" in other cars.Playing isn't free. Considering the history/mileage of the car anyone think it at least needs a top end rebuild?

DAVE E, INFRARED CAMERA Thanks for your replies

[DaveE]

I wouldn't change head studs for no reason but the lowers should be inspected / checked for broken studs. I would install carrera tensioners as soon as I could for peace of mind since a failure can do alot of internal damage and the originals do fail. I'm not sure of the cost. How's the oil consumption? Leakdown? Those will tell you about the internals and whether it needs any work. I wouldn't do a top end unless there was some good reason.

[Brother]

How much is the guy asking? That will determine if you can spare a little for incidents.

Are you only going to drive it at DE events? Highway driving and long distance cross country driving is probably the easiest thing for a car to handle. Short trips, numerous starts, and constant redlining due more to wear out an engine.

I have 182,000 miles on my 80 SC and the case hasn't been opened.

[Infrared Camera]

pantera,
I know that the tensioner thing is probably the first upgrade. with my SC people were always telling me about the tensioner upgrade. I never did it but I could have just been lucky. There is some good info on buying 911 on this site in the 911 FAQ.

911 FAQ

Specifically it says the following regarding chain tensioners
"A2. CHAIN TENSIONERS -- The timing chain is held taught by chain tensioners. The early (pre-1984) timing chain tensioners tended to wear out and suddenly collapse causing your pistons to come in violent contact with your valves. This gets expensive. The 1984 and later cars used oil-fed tensioners which solved the problem.

Many early 911 owners have had their older chain tensioners replaced with Carrera tensioners. This modification costs around $300-$400 plus labor. Adding carrera tensioners is extremely expensive on pre-1967 engines.

Some have modified their tensioners by adding mechanical tensioner guards. These devices keep the tensioners from collapsing completely when they collapse."

[pantera]

DAVE E, I really can't give any specific numbers for leak down or know oil consumption. All valid points. If I decide to purchase the PPI will reveil alot. As you mentioned the chain tensioner is a good idea regardless.

BROTHER, he's asking 19,000.00. He's put alot of money into the car recently. Then again alot of it is due to DE driving. I plan on doing some DE events with mostly weekend driving. 17 weekend DE events does indeed wear the motor out. I'd hate to end up rebuilding the engine for that money when I could have just purchased a later car with lower mileage never DE'd.

INFRARED CAMERA, thanks for the direction of the FAQ.

After listening to you guys and your input I think I'd better do some research and get better informed before diving into a car.

I can't thank all of you enough in taking the time to share your experience and opinions!

Danno

[Brother]

Don't necesarily run away from this car. If he put a lot of money into, just make sure it is the same kind of things that you would buy.

If you are looking for a DE/Track car, this might be a steal. If you want a daily driver, maybe not. This might be a great weekend car though as long as the suspension feels right for you.

[pantera]

Brother,your point is well taken. I was really looking for a dual purpose car. I talked to 2 well respected mechanics from my area. They both agreed separately that a 17 DE weekends 100,000 motor was tired. Thought it would be wise to refreshen the motor as a precaution.

One of them mentioned the cost effectiveness of replacing the motor with a low mileage 3.6 and place the 3.0 on the side?

The owner has spent a lot of money in chassis setup with the Bilstein sport suspension,brakes,braces, extended torsion bars, B&B stainless exhaust. Safety items,OMP seats, 1/2 cage, harnesses etc. All the proper items for a safe solid handling track car. In addition, tranny rebuild, new aluminum Saks clutch,half shafts etc..

I suppose I really need to see if I want to get into a 1982 SC for a total of approximately $27,000 with freshed engine. Rattlesnak's completely restored RSR clone sold for a great price of 29,000. It really could be a steal and I just don't know it?

Brother, I really appreciate your input. Anyone else have a opinion?

Thanks

[Brother]

For that price, I would get a 993.

If you really want an SC, buy one for 10,000 and put $20,000 into it to make it yours.

The 911 was my first sports car. I can live with what I have for a while and slowly upgrade and maintain the car. I suppose it is just relative. If I would have just sold my Z06 or ferrari, I might be disappointed with the 911 and feel the need to upgrade quick. However, the mods I do now are more noticeable and by doing them myself allows me to gain confidence and learn about the car.

I might have a different tune if I lived within a few hours of a track and got my butt handed to me because the CAR is outclassed, but this is just my opinion. Good luck.

[Eagledriver]

Danno,

Were the mechanics you talked to Porsche mechanics? I've been racing for 4 years and doing DE's for 15 years and I've never had to rebuild an engine for wear. I had to rebuild my 2.7 for a cracked crankcase but there was so little wear on it that I didn't change rings or valveguides. That engine had about 12 race weekends on it and 85000 miles.

If the engine has good compression, good oil pressure when hot, and doesn't burn oil then there is no reason to suspect it needs a rebuild. On the contrary it sounds like with all the oil changes you may have a very long time before you need to rebuild it.

911 SC engines are the least stressed and longest lasting engines you can get. Remember that this basic engine was turbo charged to rediculous power levels in the 935 and would run in 24 hour races.

-Andy

[pantera]

Paul & Andy, its not that I really had my heart set on a SC.I was sort of looking at the later model Carrera's. This car so happens popped up and had all the upgrades.There is alot of reward to bolting individual components and feel the seat of each upgrade.

You find yourself starting at one price point in the range of a SC and think if a major mechanical incident occurs I'll kick myself thinking I could have just bought a later year/lower mileage Carrera or Paul mentioned, 993 or even a RS America.

Andy, the two mechanics I spoke with were Porsche mechanics. One was an independent and other a dealer. I should elaborate more on the freshen up thing.They both said a visual inspection .Possibly replace valve springs/keepers and replacement of the head studs. I didn't know they used this engine configuration for the 935. That statement says alot.

I guess I'm having first time Porsche purchase jitters and looking for a little hand holding and direction from you guys. I'll have a PPI done and take it from there.

I really appreciate all of your responses,insights and experienced opinions.

Danno

[Yorkie]

After discovering that my neighbors SC had broken a bunch of head studs I thought I'd take a look at my own. To my horror I found 4 broken. I called around a few places and if I drop the motor the cost of replacing the lower studs ranges from $2500 to $4000. However, there is a signicant "while your in there" factor and potentially you could end up with another $2200 in p&cs and also valve guides, chain ramps, etc, etc. Make sure that you check the studs before parting with cash and expect to do this repair at some point in the future. Apart from that the SC is a great car.
Good Luck,
Kevin

[pantera]

Kevin, as I mentioned earlier the owner has been extremely honest and accommodating. I should have the PPI by a local dealer at the end of the week. Its all very true, "well, since we're going in"$$.Thanks for sharing your own experience. Hopefully everything checks out .

Danno

[304065]

Danno,

When you say "PPI by local dealer" I assume you are going to use one of Long Island's many fine independents?

I would be highly skeptical of the ability of any "New Porsche Dealer" to render an accurate and fairly inexpensive PPI. Which is no knock on them, per se, merely an observation that the independents who work on SC's all day long are more experienced than those who work on 986 and 996s.

[pantera]

John,sort of water under the bridge. There was a follow up to this in the For Sale forum. How much for a PPI? Big newbie mistake!I happily purchased the car, just really pissed by the bill.

Alot of members gave me some really good independants. Do you have a favorite?

Thanks,Dan