Rebuild 3.2 or Replace with 3.6 Dilema
 

I just built my fantasy motor for my 3.2 Carrera and estimated the total cost for the project. Here are some of the highlights.

- 3.4 liter 10.5:1 Mahle pistons and cylinders
- Rods reconditioned with RaceWare hardware
- A pair of WEB Cams
- Heads rebuilt with racing springs, titanium retainers and
machined for twin plug.
- RaceWare Studs, washers and nuts
- PMO 46 Carbs
- Electromotive XDi Ignition System
- Machine work, gaskets, bearings, hardware, clutch

I calculated $15,000.00 for parts and machine work alone:eek: That's with me doing the assembly!! :eek:

I'm starting to look at the other option of finding a good solid 3.6 liter motor from a 95 or 96 993 and doing a swap. I'm guessing that run somewhere around $10,000 with me keeping my 3.2 motor. Does that sound right to you guys?

Lots of these 3.6 motors either need guides or will pretty soon. You may have to factor that into the mix as well. I had a 3.6 I bought cheap to rebuild and sway into my 84, I ended up parting it out and swapping for a lot of the parts that are in your list above. So I am ending up with a 3.4 twin plug.......

You can also sell your intake, ecu, harness and piston/cylinder set to recoupe some money. When you are done, you have a completely rebuilt motor with all fresh parts.

Hard to say which is the better option...

Cheers

Jeff has it right. I think you can find a deal and do better one way or another. Seems to me that it is cheaper to buy someone's freshly rebuilt motor, be it a 3.2, a 3.6, etc than buy a running, but well-used motor. If you wait, deals will come up. I talked to a guy who had two 993 3.6s, one that he had blown up (missed shift), but that was complete and one that was a long block. He wanted $6500 for the package. Conversion parts are another $2.5k and going through the heads of the long block would have been $1000 if you can do the asembly work yourself. That would have been $10k total for likely a VERY nice setup and a lot less than rebuilding a 3.2 with all of the tricks (like Jeff's or Ralph's twin plug 3.4 or 3.5, respectively). Hard to beat displacement. Good things come to those who wait. Figure out what you need, plan and pull the trigger when you see what you want at the right price.

Doug

Ouch!
 

Mind sharing your cost estimate breakdown for the 3.2 rebuild?

Thanks, Gordo

Mark,
Check out Taso's 3.6 motor for sale as an option.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/260711-fs-964-3-6-a.html

Hi Keith

How are you? I'm still recovering from Flemmings. I saw Taso's motor. Looks like a screamer. Have you seen it in action?

Sent you a pm Mark.

Been There Done That
 

I was faced with the same dilemma about a year ago. My '86 3.2 has approx 130k but was running strong. I wanted to go through it before it developed any serious problems. Came up with about the same numbers for the same stuff you want to do. I went the 3.6 Vram route and never looked back. Found a low mile '97 Vram for 10 G's and bought the Timmons kit for the crossover. I spent another $800 to have the ECU tweaked by some "Tuners" in Deutchland. Installed 2nd oil cooler up front along with new lines. I did my own install and ended up with an extremely strong engine swap for about $15,000. It ended up about even money with the rebuild I wanted to do on my 3.2 but this Vram engine has way more torque & HP. I got lucky on the engine. The guy I bought it from sight unseen ( yea, I know, way dumb) ended up being an honest guy and I got a "claimed 27k" engine. Now, just from peeking in the ports at the valves (super clean) and doing a compression test and the butt dyno all say its not worn. I can't prove it's 27K but it runs strong starts first time, uses no oil, doesn't leak and definitely brings a smile to my face. I'd do it again in a heartbeat! Look up my name in the search engine if you want to see some of the install pics and BS. By the way, Vram is a must for this outcome.

Mike

Never underestimate the usefulnsess of knock sensors.

If you rebuild why not start w/ the best available base engine, which IMO is a 993.

For a properly geared engine vram isn't even desireable.

If you plan on spending that kind of money, it's a coin toss. Out on the tracks with the local clubs, I don't find the 3.6's to be significantly quicker than 3.2's.

My $0.02.

Tinker

That's a very good point! The other thing about buying a used 3.6 is you really do not know what you are getting until it's paid for and in your hands. My brother in law had a 3.0 liter engine shipped to him that was supposed to be in great shape and it wasn't! It had a broken stud, was assembled with parts from other engines and it still needed a top end rebuild!:eek: Long story short, could have built one for around the same price!

Also, wouldn't a "built" 3.4 liter engine cook a stock 3.6 liter engine on the track?

I don't know about "cook", but I find the 3.6's lack the some of the rush, in the upper RPM range, the smaller displacement motors have.

On faster tracks, there are diminishing returns of the torque benefits of the larger motors.

From my experience in racing with clubs with rules and weight penalties for modifications, one is almost always better off with a smaller displacement motor and less weight.

Tinker

Considering the fact that this car is no longer in any stock racing class.

A good big motor will beat a good small motor any day, the 3.6 will not weigh any more than the 3.2, will develop significantly more torque across the rev range. Will be more civilized in it's ability to run well w/ pump gas.

You will probably want to gear it differently, but then your 3.4 probably allready wanted different gearing anyway.

Bill,

I agree a 3.6 vs. 3.4 in the same car should be faster.

What my statement concerning weight meant; the more the displacement is increased over stock the greater the ballast or weight penalty (not the weight of the motor) will be applied to the car.

Tinker