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That's what I'm hoping for.
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Stephen
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:01 AM
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Stephen, whats the machineable area of a VF-5? I would look into a HMC with a tombstone to machine 90% of the case.
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:27 AM
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Don't quote me on this, but I think the VF 5 has the following motion ranges:

X 50"
Y 26"
Z 25"


The reason I mentioned the VF5 is because I have one at my disposal. Production work would probably require something else.
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Old 01-26-2006, 11:50 AM
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You can get a great deal of it done on your machine. the ends are the areas that pose the problem as far as machining. Are you thinking green sand? die cast?
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Old 01-26-2006, 12:04 PM
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I was thinking sand for the initial cases, then maybe if demand permits finding someone to die cast them. Also, I figured that if the line boring and such was going to be a problem, I could send them out to a porsche shop for that. CE charges $295 for a line bore, according to there website. Again, this is for prototyping mainly.

There is quite a bit of machine work to do on a 911 case to finish it, but some of it is pretty straightforward. Of course, some of it isn't. I think that with some creative setup, most of the machine work could be done in house. If need be, I could also have some work done on a much larger Arboga mil.
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Old 01-26-2006, 12:55 PM
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Anybody have a clue as to what tolerances the original cases were machined to?
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Old 01-26-2006, 03:08 PM
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patents....are only good (as far as I know ) if the licence is renewed every year....Probably Porsche has dropped it by now as there is not much reason to keep it on.
I want you endeavor to work !! like Henry says " make so its universal" the cyl. spickets.
Old 01-26-2006, 03:34 PM
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I would think .0005 would be closer than Porsche call out the tolerance.
I am not an engineer but you build it to .0005 and it will be closer than any used mag case on the planet. Reconditioned or not.
At a 1/2 a thou, I would think we all win .
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Old 01-26-2006, 04:44 PM
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So, has anybody started to make aluminum 7R cases yet?
Old 07-13-2006, 06:42 PM
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I've been watching a friend do battle with some aluminum castings for a 4 cylinder 911 that has him pulling his hair out.

Talk about an expensive, peril ridden project. He's too far in to quit but if he could, I can't see why he wouldn't. I would not wish this exercise on anyone
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Old 07-13-2006, 07:20 PM
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Henry, are those 4 cylinder 911 cases similar/related to the "papadulos" motors that were being made some time ago? I'm sure I've butchered the guy's name, sorry about that.
Old 07-13-2006, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Henry Schmidt
I've been watching a friend do battle with some aluminum castings for a 4 cylinder 911 that has him pulling his hair out.

Talk about an expensive, peril ridden project. He's too far in to quit but if he could, I can't see why he wouldn't. I would not wish this exercise on anyone
Interesting thread, and totally out of my league to comment on regarding the manufacturing aspects.

As far as your friend goes, he's not alone. Lot's of people have problems separating the idea of "sunk cost" from "investment". Alas, that is the way the fortunes are lost...
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Old 07-14-2006, 03:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 89turbocabmike
Henry, are those 4 cylinder 911 cases similar/related to the "papadulos" motors that were being made some time ago? I'm sure I've butchered the guy's name, sorry about that.
Yeh he had 4 cylinder cases made to work with 911 parts, seems if he could do that for a 'reasonable' cost then someone should be able to have 7R cases made. Or how about the elusive, and sought after 3.0 Carrera Case?
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Old 07-14-2006, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rvanderpyl
Yeh he had 4 cylinder cases made to work with 911 parts, seems if he could do that for a 'reasonable' cost then someone should be able to have 7R cases made. Or how about the elusive, and sought after 3.0 Carrera Case?
The point of my post was that it isn't reasonable and has cost more than money. The aggravation level is off the chart.
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Old 07-14-2006, 08:58 AM
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What to do

This is very interesting, The 911 Engine is almost open source!

If you were to do this I'd suggest:

1/ Don't worry about 5 thou tolerances on the casting, A non-porous casting is more important

2/ Beef up around the spigot holes/stud area so they can de machined to siut

3/ Sand cast is OK early cases were sand cast, The people who want these cases are not worried about the weight so much a few extra Kg's is irrelevant. A guy here builds 300hp Type 4 motors for offraoding and he uses aftermarket heads that were designed for drag racers as this is the weakest part of the type 4, the heads are heavy (which is why they work!)

I'd machine the case 'nominally' ie mating faces, spigot faces, joining studs, oil galleys, squirter feeds, crank and camshaft bearings and leave the final machining (spigots, stud etc) to the consumer.

Neven
Old 07-14-2006, 10:04 AM
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Since I have a brand new aluminium case sitting on my bench, admittedly not a 7R.....it is an '84 case without sump plate....what would the advantage be of machining one when you can still buy them from Porsche?

Something special about the 7R versus the later aluminium cases?

Dennis
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Old 07-14-2006, 07:26 PM
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Hmm.... one thing only, you will enter the religion of lighter then aluminum......but pass on the argument as the aluminum will hold its shape.
Old 07-14-2006, 07:29 PM
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Also the spigot bore is larger, hard to build a small engine on an 84 case
Old 07-14-2006, 07:40 PM
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For aluminum casting you might want to take a look at the lost foam casting process - low relative tooling cost and nice surface finish and overall quality is very good.

There is a shop in Ohio doing this who is very good. If you want a name and contact info send me an email.
Old 07-18-2006, 06:26 PM
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One would think the easy way to get around the casting issues would be to get in contact with the "popadolous" fellow (if my memory seves me correct there was an article in Excellence on him) and ask him who did his final machine work. I remember the article saying the cost but can't rember how much it was.

If one person has done it on a modified 911engine reduced to 4cyl then doing a 7r case with a modification to allow different bore/spigot sizes will be a success.

Michael
Old 07-18-2006, 07:42 PM
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