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id911T's Avatar
 
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7R Aluminum cases

Just as a hypothetical question:

Do you think there would be much of a market for 7R cases cast from aluminum rather than mag? I'm not talking about redesigning the wheel or anything, but just a dimensional copy of the 7R case, only cast from a similar alloy to the later Al cases.

Thoughts?

Comments?


Rants?
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Stephen
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:51 AM
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I would suspect the tooling for such an item would be unbelievably expensive. Maybe it could be CNC'd, but I think it would still be out of my league in term of price.
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Last edited by andrew15; 01-25-2006 at 05:04 PM..
Old 01-25-2006, 03:05 PM
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Tooling for that would water your eyes,unless you have the capability to do that yourself. Machining the cases would probably cost more than a good used 7R case....other than that it would be *****in.
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Old 01-25-2006, 04:48 PM
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who knows, try it.
Old 01-25-2006, 04:51 PM
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If you build them, I'll buy them.
10 at a time.
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:08 PM
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I asked that question before on an early (2 liter case). If made I'd buy some also (for the right price).
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:46 PM
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The reason I ask is that I started working on the CAD data for the CNC machining of the raw castings, but i figured I should see if there would be any demand for the cases in the first place before I finished it off.
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Old 01-25-2006, 05:52 PM
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I dont know why you would not succeed...we all need a new case...most of us just dont know it yet
Old 01-25-2006, 07:10 PM
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At the automotive engineering and research center where I work we have all of the equipment to produce the cases, including the casting and foundry work, at least during the prototyping stage. We're always looking for interesting projects to expand our experience base, but at the same time, I think the Al cases would benefit both engine rebuilders and DIY'ers alike. What's a good, straight 7R case from a reputable builder go for right now, both for 2.4 and 2.7 sized spigots?
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:34 PM
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China.
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Old 01-26-2006, 04:09 AM
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Can't you get a sanner and create the case in Solidworks and then fed it into a CNC? You could modify it to knife edge, ....

Just a CPA here .....
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Old 01-26-2006, 06:26 AM
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That would be an expensive chunk of aluminum and a lot of CNC work, but I guess you could do it. Maybe get a casting made in China?
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Old 01-26-2006, 06:27 AM
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I know getting the castings made is possible. Rimco I'm pretty sure does brand new Al cases for type 1 vws. As for the actual machine of the 7R cases, I was thinking of using a FARO arm to scan the case for the bulk of the surface machining, and then using a Renishaw probe to touch off on all of the stud and hole locations. I need to find a good, straight 7R case with only the factory machining done on it to scan though. I checked out my case and it's good, but unfortunately it's out of a 2.2T. I figure if I'm going to go through the trouble of doing this I might as well use the strongest of the mag case designs. How much would you guys pay for a 7R Al case?
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Old 01-26-2006, 06:44 AM
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Might be abetter off with a bridge CMM or even better SMX.
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Old 01-26-2006, 06:47 AM
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I've used the laser scan function of the FARO arm to scan smaller parts, and I suppose I could technically touch off the hole and stud locations with it too. My main motivation for using the FARO arm though is that it is what i have available. As for the castings, I think china would be the cheapest in the end. A friend of mine was building a cable cutting tool and had a bunch of castings made over there, so maybe I'll call him about it. Testing would be interesting.....as I don't have any of the components to put a 2.7 together. I might have to find someone willing to go out on a limb and try some cases in the best test environment there is: actual real world use.
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:07 AM
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This thread is starting to peak my interest.
The way to make this project work is to make the casting capable of handling multiple engine configurations. It would be necessary for the spigot bores to range from 91mm all the way to 105mm ( or more) and have stud spacings from 80mm to 86 (or even 90) this would allow for use by the most number of people and finish work like stud holes and spigots could be done by the end user.

I would even be willing to front some seed money for this project. I think I can get the castings made but the finish machine work is where my concerns exist.
For those of you who do machining, finish work on a casting of this type is a monumental undertaking.
If any of you know of a shop that can handle it and would like to try something similar, let me know.
One of my mechanics has some 4 cylinder 911 case castings that need to be finished and he is have trouble finding a shop to tackle this project (for a reasonable price).
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Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 01-26-2006 at 07:38 AM..
Old 01-26-2006, 07:35 AM
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Not that it matters to everyone, but I assume this is legal, there are not patents or other protection on the Porsche design?
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Old 01-26-2006, 07:37 AM
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I would think that patent protections on a 41 year old design a probable pretty weak.
But any case designed to handle multiple engine configurations would probable need design change in excess of the 15% requirements.
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Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 01-26-2006 at 07:48 AM..
Old 01-26-2006, 07:42 AM
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For the prototyping work, I have the use of a Haas VF 5 cnc mill to finish the castings. I really don't know how I would modify the design to accomodate a wide range of spigot bores and stud spacings. But, I hadn't thought of the whole patent issue, and if changes were needed, that would certainly be the changes to make. Like I said earlier, there are companies making cases very similar (if not the same) to original vw cases. I think what I will do, seeing as henry and a few others have expressed interest and feel it would be possible to get the castings, is make a scan of my 2.2 case and see if the machine work can be done on the Haas. The FARO arm is accurate to .0002", which I assume will be close enough. Does anyone have some figures on the accuracy needed to machine the cases?
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Old 01-26-2006, 09:59 AM
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I think Henry should chime in now...
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:00 AM
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