Choosing Headers

[Facey]

Hey guys
I own/drive/build a 1975 911s, which is pretty modified, and some what gruppeB,

the engine is a bored/stroked 2.7 ~3L, and is somewhere north of 260hp (but still under 300). its a fire breather and is tons of fun. however i do find that the power comes on very high, and that the throttle response is lacking.... both fixable at the expenise of top end ...but i decided to do something else


i baught a 3.6L twin plugged beast.... it was a 2001 Jerry woods crate engine. the prvious owner wanted mroe than what came outta the crate (which was a 3L case pushed out to 3.6L, twin plug heads, EVO 2 s cam, with twin plug heads, custom crank, and JE forged pistons (9.98:1). I am not aware of it fuel delievery system.


however as it goes into my car, it has 46mm webber's, with extended veloicty stacks, 6 coil crank fire/triiger igntion, more arrgressive cams, 104mmMAHLE pistons, re-angled oversized valves, ported heads, smooth polished, and pretty much every other goodie u can think of.... excpet headers.... which is has none.

i have been thinking about the B&B system, however i have no experience with them, and was just wondering what u guys would recommend?

i believe i want a very free flowing tuned exhuast system, featuring twin tips, AND the heater boxes....

so whatta think? [img]

[Steve@Rennsport]

I'd use the GHL ones,.........

[Facey]

got a link?

or phone number?

i'd just like to talk with them a price it out....as i know B&B is expensive....but power and noise is my goal.....(in that order)...and than looks...and then cost....lol...within reason..

[Dadofour]

Pelican GHL Headers

Try our host

[JohnJL]

Hi Dad...you do have expensive tastes! Linky no worky tho...I think it is this one...http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/911M/POR_911M_exhprf_pg12.htm#item


I recently received my Bursch headers from our host but haven't had a chance to run them yet. The welding was not, shall we say, "artful." The black paint coating is cheap too...I'd rather they come bare steel so I could easily ceramic coat them. I'll have to have them blasted first.

I'd get in touch with Jerry, he should be able to recommend the right headers. Of course, Steve@Rennsport is also a Jedi...

[JohnJL]

You're also going to need to upgrade your brakes with that transplant!

[Dadofour]

Hey John. I am interested in why you went Bursch (other than price).

I am shopping headers and exhaust as well, and am trying to find headers that have some proven benefit in performance.

What are you putting on the end of it?

[Porschephd]

B&B has a better collector design and has proven on our dyno time and time again to create more power than the others out there. I would also do either the B&B muffler or use the Fabspeed muffler. You will need to do some fabbing to make this work on the older body but it is not a big deal.

I have no issues with the B&B muffler and in fact run one on my wife’s 3.6 in her 76S Targa. I also run the fabspeed on other conversions we have done and was very pleased with the results as well.

[JohnJL]

Hi Than,
I am just experimenting. There's an active aftermarket here, so if I don't want them/not happy with them someone will want them. Not much need for heat here!

There is some guy here who just spend $5000 on his exhaust system (mandrel-bent stainless steel 'bundle of snakes'). I'm just kind of keeping quiet until we're both out on the track...

I'll be gutting a stock muffler and welding up a 2-in2-out setup. That is pretty common on the tracks here...and just below the track db thresholds.

[Carrera3.5L]

George Narbel from European Racing Headers in Henderson, NV has been making these mild steel headers in various diameters for years. Can be used with a street muffler by adding his adaptor pipes. They also have been "dyno proven" over the years.

They come with a high-heat paint, but for the best long-term performance it may be wise to ceramic coat inside & out.






Cost of the headers with the adaptor pipes is about $600 retail, far cheaper than the all stainless units out there. If you live in an environment where the higher grade material would be beneficial, stainless is probably a better option but for those of us who don't need or want to pay for the higher grade material these work just fine.

Ralph

[JohnJL]

Ralph, I just see black boxes, no images...

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by JohnJL
Ralph, I just see black boxes, no images...

Yeah, I do too...

Have no idea what happened...

Let's try again?





If these don't work than I give up.

Ralph

[Carrera3.5L]

Oh well, I can't get it to work.

Anyway, I just read the original post and he wants heater boxes, which take's George's headers out of the equation anyway.



Looks like the 3rd times the charm. My computer ineptness is pathetic.

Ralph

[Steve@Rennsport]

Early B&B headers made FAR more power than the ones they make now so we use either GHL header/heat exchangers or George's headers that we modify for different displacement engines.

[Porschephd]

Georges headers are excellent and hard to beat for the price. He makes good stuff. Just no heat unfortunately.

I am not sure the last time you had a set of B&Bs on the dyno but I have within the last 6 months seen different on my dyno

[Steve@Rennsport]

Steve:

We've tested 15-16 sets of B&B headers over the past 10 years on our engine dyno and all of the early, first-gen B&B's did a LOT better than anything they've made in the past 4 years.

I suppose its all relative.

[Dadofour]

Early B&B headers made FAR more power than the ones they make now so we use either GHL header/heat exchangers or George's headers that we modify for different displacement engines.

Steve,

What types of modifications do you do to George's Headers? I am considering a set combined with the M&K Stingers.

Thanks

[Porschephd]

Steve,
I agree in the past there were issues, however in the last year or so things have changed. You may want to revisit that. As I mentioned I did some test on both the NA and turbo cars to find some stayed the same and some had done better than they did in the past. I am trying to get our money’s worth out of this thing(very expensive dyno).

It is all relative as you mention. Something tell mention to Jeff to give another shot.
.

[Steve@Rennsport]

Steve:

We recently (within 3 weeks) did a 3.6 RS spec motor and compared a new set of B&B's, an old set of B&B's, and a pair of George's headers. The old set gave the best results, followed by George's, and then the new B&B's. Pretty current stuff,....


Than:

We change primary lengths based on displacement and camshaft selection.

[MBEngineering]

HI try www.btbexhausts.co.uk thay will make what you require for the engine, thay fitted a set of manifolds to a engine i helped build for the east african rally (3.0l) the car came 2nd with good power throughout the rally.

regards mike