Jeff,
Thanks! The P&C set is supposedly a 30k mile factory set that looked and measured out like new. That is the story.

The tech is MIA, bottom line. I bought the engine from a friend who had the engine rebuilt. While it was believed that the tech did an appropriate job, clearly that is not the case. I am going to remove the engine shortly and strip it down to a long block and have it dis-assembled and checked out by a professoinal shop with whom I deal. I'd like to rebuild it myself, but I just don't have the time. My wife is already fed up with the car projects, despite her extreme patience.

In two weeks time, I'll have some answers, I beleive and will definitely post.

Doug

Whaaaaaat.... I cant believe you have to pull the motor.

That really, really sucks. I dont think I need to tell you but its time to get the rocket launcher out you should have stashed away for times like this heh, heh.

Herman,
Thanks for the sympathy and laughs!

I'll get there. This car has tested my patience, but I'm going to perservere.

Doug

Dont even think or say 3.8
Seriously I hope the guy that put the motor together backs up his work.

doug,

I just can't belive that all 6 sets of rings are bad or that the cylinders are all worn out!. I have aluisil cylinders on my car and I rerung it (which is a big no no) and it still sealed up good. I just think that the mention of valves steers me away from that. The only reason for poor leak down could be broken rings on every cylinder(unlikely) or leaking back through the intake into the oil tank(if connected the traditional way)

Ben,
I hear you. I honestly have no first hand experience with what it would take to have 80% leak down or 46% etc. IE I've never had the problem and then disassembled the engine to say "AH HA! it means all the rings are broken!" However, I can hear the leakage going into the case, rather than the intake. When doing the leak down and moving the tester between each cylinder, I forgot to advance the crankshaft at one point. The intake valve was open and I could hear air rushing into the intake and even out the air filter. The throttle body was closed, but maybe air went through the Idle stabilzer, I don't know. I just know that when the intake valve was open, it was obvious.

All we are really saying with this test is there is a drop in pressure across the rings of X psi.

Interestingly, the oil control rings seemed to do their job. The engine was not burning oil.

Maybe the guy forgot to install the top compression rings?

We'll find out.

Doug

It is possible that he aligned the rings so the gaps are not offset. But the noisy valve train makes me wonder

I've read that the rings spin as the pistons move?

I think that the valve train wasn't adjusted properly. After redoing the adjustments, it seemed quieter. Maybe the cams got fouled up, but I doubt it, we'll see. Hopefully, this isn't extraordinarily expensive.

Doug

common knowledge

dumb thought but a big deal depending on some cars. Now my engine was not like this but yours may be I have never had a 3.6 apart or even really looked much at them but it possible to put a ring in upside down and if it designed to be facing upwards it is that way so the combustion gases force the ring outward for a better seal. This could be your issue

Rings could easily be put in upside down, even thought they have the word "top" on them. Not sure how much difference it would make though. I hope you get it apart and it is something simple that isn't big $$$.

Cheers

Seems to me like it could be complete P&Cs? Supposedly, the complete bottom end rotating assembly was balanced. That would have to be done again....
Oh...I'm going to try not to speculate. Gives me a headache.

Doug

Doug, I think you should adjust the valves, change the oil, and try to seat the rings before tearing it down.

When you had all the plugs out to do the leakdown test, how much resistance was there when turning the engine over? If it was very easy, then he didn't hone the cylinders. If it was difficult, then they were honed.

In either case, it can take some time for the rings to seat.

When I rebuild engines with Nikasil cylinders, (re-using the cylinders) I only hone them if there are minor scratched that warrant it. If they are otherwise fine, I re-ring, and use a small amount of ATF to lubricate the ring lands and an ultra-thin coat on the skirts.

They almost always take a good initial seat, then are 100% after about 1000 miles. But sometimes they are like yours, and require some heavy acceleration runs and a lot of decel to get a good seat. You may want to turn the odds in your favor by using non-detergent oil this time for the ring seating runs, and change it after 50 miles or 1 engine hour.

Tyson,
I really appreciate your advice. The engine is very hard to turn over, but seems to develop little to no compression (IE plugs in or out seems to make only a little difference in turning over).

Before the last update, I did exactly your advice. I adjusted the valves Thursday AM, put in 30 WT non detergent oil and after warming it up went from 3k to 5000 rpm for about 20 miles. WOT to off the gas. That's when it puked oil from the oil tank (blew a vaccuum cap off - I only have the crankcase breather and the intake breather lines hooked up where the 3.2 had one more connection). Immediately following that run I did the leak down. Where results for a perfect motor would read 98/100 and good 92+ / 100. Mine was:
1 – 80/100
2 – 73/100
3 – 56/100
4 – 46/100
5 – 61/100
6 – 64/100

Not sure if you picked up that part from the thread? The valve noise subsided after the adjustment. Because the leak down is so out of whack and amount of pressure in the crankcase and oil tank is why I was thinking the next step is to pull it apart.

Do you have other thoughts? I've almost got the motor out right now (I spent 2 hours working to pull it out this AM).
Thank you very much,

Doug

afaik.. the degree of ring break-in decreases with mileage. It's not linear.

Gents,
Thought I'd provide an update. The motor is being torn down. When the cylinders came off of the pistons, early today, an obvious related problem was discovered! The rings did not "float" in their respective grooves. They were actually stuck in the grooves and remained compressed once the cylinders were removed. I can only assume the wrong rings were fitted. The gaps were clearly not measured properly (or at all). I guess the leak down results now makes sense. The pistons were doing all of the sealing against the cylinder walls. I'm confident no amount of ring break-in would have solved the issue.

The engine is being stripped down to the case and completely cleaned / checked / rebuilt by Mirage International down here in San Diego.

Doug