%^#! RUST --motor sitting forever
 

So, this weekend I had the pleasure of flying down from Berkeley to start work on (disassembling) a '67 2.0L that is to become a vintage race motor...lo and behold, as soon as I got in on the stand, I realized that this thing has an overactive bladder problem, like it needed one of those many anti-diuretic drugs advertised everywhere (you know, the ads in which a lot of older people really have to "go")...but this dribbling and tinkling wasn't all oil; it was water!

Great! Water in a motor always proves to be a rousing good time.

And, of course, it was. After finding several stripped out exhaust stud nuts and all kinds of fun surprises, I got the heads off no problem (even though I think there is mold growing in the cam housings). However, I then came to the daunting task of the rusty cylinders. I've been there once before--on a '67 911S, unfortunately--but this was one was worse. In both cases, after PB Blaster, tapping this way, tapping that way, trying to turn the motor over (100% FROZEN), and a myriad of solutions in between, I had to resort to chiseling the cylinders apart (carefully, so as not to disturb the precious aluminum case, the point of the disassembly in the first place).

After about 2 hours, I had five cylinders off, including both cylinders with the pistons near TDC, which usually prove the hardest. Ironically, it was the last one (Cyl. #1) I did, with the piston at BDC, that gave me the most trouble. At first, I started chiseling, nothing too abnormal, but then, this cylinder literally split circumferentially all the way around, approximately at the case spigot line (just like a wonderful dilavar head stud that snaps off right at the case ;) ). No worries, I said, it will come out, it's just a cylinder.

But, come out it did not.

It feels as though all the rods except #1 are free at the crank end (ie., normal) , and the crank has gone from "frozen" to "ever-so-slightly mobile" (with the demolition of the other 5).

I figured if I got the crank to turn over, the rod would simply force out the rusted piston/cylinder out, but I broke a crank pulley bolt doing that (nothing else is hanging up; sprockets in the chains, rods angled correctly to keep from catching on the case, etc.). So, after a few choice words and the extraction of the broken crank pulley bolt (no permanent damage), I was back at square one.

Now, I've pretty much racked my brain for ideas, from gun powder to lasers, and I'm not giving up, but I need some advice from someone who's been here.

What I really don't get is why the cylinder piece is so tightly wedged in the spigot. The other thing that makes this so complicated is that, because I cannot rotate the crank, I cannot access the wristpins on the other side of the engine, to remove the pistons on that side and split the case.

Anybody have any good idears? I'm going to sleep on it and see if anything pops into my head.

Thanks.
Scott
2:45 A.M...

Hello, Scott.

I have dealt wit this too.

The answer is oxyacetylene, as usual.

Its always the answer, whatever the question..

Just melt the piston crowns until the pin boss is free, and the cylinder and remaining piston can be driven off the case..

The heat will help loosen the cylinders in the case too.

You were quite lucky to get the heads off without oxy IMHO..

Kind regards
David

In the past when faced with this dilemma, i.e. last resort, we just split the offending cylinders from top to bottom.

As soon as the cylinder is split the problem is resolved.
The cylinder will ease from the case and the piston will move in the cylinder at that point.

David--thanks, I will give the oxyace a go .

Henry--I was splitting all of the cylinders from the top to bottom. I would turn each cylinder into 2 half-moons, but somehow, this cylinder broke in a very unpredictable way, leaving the base section still within the case.

Thanks !

I hope my address, and the desire to do the right thing, pop into your head. Being a good mechanic is an honorable trait--stealing isn't. Return the money!

Rather cryptic. What does this mean ?

It means Scott's business skills are not on par with his mechanical skills, as he seems quite the accomplished mechanic. He was paid for a part, and decided not to send it. Hopefully he'll consider "business skills" as important as those previously mentioned.

Jon, don't worry, it's in the mail...($28)

Scott:
This has never been about being worried. It's been about being pissed-off! This was the last part needed to finish a three month project, and you straight-up took the money. I even spoke to you on the phone , after you wouldn't reply to e-mail. You told me then that you were sorry I had waited four weeks, but you had just sent the part. So, the project got put on hold for another week while I waited for something that you had never sent. Scott, nobody worries over $28, but if you pull a stunt like this on someone who lives within reach, you might find the learning curve a bit more abrupt..

Pictures please!

-Wayne

SHBOP and Scott.

Could you elaborate on what happened?. I know this isn't my fight, but I am trying to prevent it from becoming my fight. You see, I am about to send Scott Kinder $850 dollars for these 3.0L ported and twin plugged heads.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/281624-sc-heads-twin-plugged.html

Scott sounded like a very nice person in PMs, but then I don't have anyone living near Scott, to find him in case he takes of with my money (not that I am saying that he will). I just want to make sure if I should even be worry about it.

Moderator, if you find this post is in poor taste, please delete at will.

Andy

Scott sounded like a graat guy when I spoke to him as well. It is evident from his posts that he is an accomplished mechanic. It is also evident that many have successfully done business with him. I don't know what happened on this deal, except I got burnt. It is, and has been, easily resolved. There! That's about as diplomatic as I can be.

Money returned.

Back on topic...;) :p

Got to work on the teardown again this weekend. I had to resort to drilling holes in the top of the piston, thinking I could free the rod bolts and then split the case.

Even after drilling the holes, I couldn't get my 14mm socket in between the rod (small end) and the inside of the piston skirt (using a long extension bar). For one of the rod bolts, I removed the screen at the bottom of the engine, then I fished the 14mm socket in through the sump plate opening, and latched it onto the extension when it was lined up. For the other rod bolt, I chiseled (carefully) the skirt off the piston, while it was inside of the spigot, to get enough room to put the extension bar + 14mm socket down in there.

Happy to report that the crank looks good, on preliminary inspection, and I didn't create any extra repair work for the case! :) Probably about 10 hours invested just getting this piston off. But, what a satisfying feeling getting that off my back...

The most amazing thing is, even with the case apart, that piston is *still* stuck in the cylinder, and the cylinder is stuck in the case. Worst I've ever seen, and hope to see.

Best, Scott

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1159732173.jpg

Crappy cell phone pic, but it shows what I was working with. #1 piston with two holes drilled in it. Red line shows the cylinder stuck in the spigot.

Congrats on getting it loose Scott, I hope I won't run into something like that in the future. BTW, have you gotten a chance to send out the heads to me yet?. If so, do you know when I can expect it?. Thanks for all your help. Andy

You should be getting an email today/tonight/tomorrow from Fedex, as soon as they scan it into the system. Packed them over the weekend. Best, Scott