Gold glitter in the oil?? oh-oh.

nabilious · 09-17-2006, 07:39 PM

After a long day at the track (250 miles of it) for a local DE day I got home and changed the oil. It ran out so fast I very nearly had an Exxon Valdes accident in the garage. Its my track car with a hot 2.7L engine with a front mounted cooler (15 quart and during any given oil change I can only get at 10 or so) I noticed a little more glitter than usual. Now we all see a very fine glitter when we change our oil if you stare hard enough but I didn;t have to look that hard this time as they were the size of maybe the very end of pin heads. Hard to tell their true color as its in the dark oil (or probably gas/oil in this case!) but it apppeared to be gold. Changed the filter and oil and gonna put 20 miles on it tomorrow and change it again...and probably again and check the results.....anybody wanna tell me the bad news and is there an affordable oil analysis out there? I would like to test it after I'm sure I got most of the old stuff out.
Thanks,
nabil
P.S. I posted this in the tech forum but thought that this might be a better place for it!

Eagledriver · 09-17-2006, 08:29 PM

See if it's magnetic. Iron/steel usually looks dark though not gold. The gold looking stuff is usually Aluminum I think. It takes on the color of the oil unless you clean it off.

I don't know what it is for sure but I've seen quite abit of wear on the last couple of intermediate shaft aluminum gears I've seen. These can wear alot before they would be close to failing. Might run it awhile and see if it gets worse. (like what you planned). Cause of gear wear could be high oil pressure especially in the scavenge circuit. Check for blockage in scavenge circuit (This is just speculation of course).

-Andy

nabilious · 09-17-2006, 08:59 PM

Do you mean the sump screen? I planned taking that off and checking things out too, haven't yet though.
tomorrow for sure.
Nabil

MBEngineering · 09-18-2006, 03:21 AM

HI if you still have the OIL FILTER very carefully cut round the end of the filter where it is rolled on to the thread end of the filter and then remove the outer case to check the filter in side, should tell you more??

regards mike

Ho Hum 74 · Ho Hum 74's Garage

OK, firstly, sorry to hear you have something foreign in your oil. I had the same with my 2.7 but after hearing a loud knocking noise on the track. I was very naive at the time and didn't know much about it. Turns out my oil pressure was not very good because of a #3 rod bearing failure but I didn't know what to compare it to. After investigation I found out that a healthy 911 2.7 will show 20 psi for every 1000 revs. After my rebuild that's exactly what I got. What does your oil pressure look like when its warm? Are you getting 15-20 psi per 1000 revs? Did you have unusually high temps? Is there any knocking sound at all?

I think the gold flecks are copper, if I remember correctly, which says that the bearing has worn through the first metallic layer and is now in a zone where it will more quickly deteriorate. Have you been able to pick up any of the flakes or take pictures of them?

Hope you get it sorted out soon.

Best
Tristan

aigel · aigel's Garage

The gold color is from the oil. Yes, the particles could be gold to start with, but they also could be aluminum or steel.

What did you find on the magnetic drain plugs?

I second that you should cut open (and unfold) your filter. An oil analysis can be done here:

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/index.html

I would be careful with the car and see that you find out what's wrong. It is cheaper to fix things before something let's go and you have rods sticking out of your case etc.

George

sww914 · 09-20-2006, 08:26 PM

It sound like there's a lot of gas in the crankcase from your description. Does the oil smell like gas? If it does, that's the root of your problem, and the diluted oil caused the endine to digest itself.

aigel · aigel's Garage

sww914 has a great point!

George

sww914 · 09-21-2006, 07:17 PM

George, ask me how I know!

Ho Hum 74 · Ho Hum 74's Garage

Isn't gas in the crankcase more of a MFI issue because the pump seal fails?

aigel · aigel's Garage

You can get gas in the oil from plain running rich.

George

nabilious · 09-23-2006, 08:16 AM

Although my engine is carb'd it does run a bit rich. I've sent the sample out for Oil Anlysis and I should get the results back in a week. I'll post them here for all to see. I'm changing my oil several times in the next week and gonna send samples from each one.
Thanks and stay tuned.
Nabil