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Carrillo Rods

Carrillo Rods. The company reps gave a presentation of their products today at Saddleback College. Very impressive. The quality of their product stands out, far beyond all others. Thats what they are selling Quality, reliability. They work under the most sever conditions and DO NOT FAIL. Thats why all the formula one, Cup cars and anyone who is a serious racer uses them. Unfortunately you cannot SEE quality, you have to understand it and appreciate what it means. I have worked for the Gov civil service and was the project engineer for such things as ejection seats. Stuff that had to work, no matter what. I also worked in industry doing designs for mil spec, and space spec stuff for over 30 years, so I know what quality means, and it means more than the thing will work to twice the environment its subjected to, it also means it WORKS when it has to work, and it simply does not fail, period. Carrillo rods are this type of quality. Say a Cup car, or a formula one car, with multi millions depending on its winning, why would they go for rods that save a couple of hundred bucks, no way. In fact they are so paranoid that they change out Carrillo rods every event! I would love to have some of the leftovers. But it works. How often do you see any car blow an engine? Hardly ever, except in Top fuel drag racing, and they do not use Carrillo rods.

Someone had mentioned that Carillo rods failed in 3.2 L Porsches, on the small end. I asked about this. Most likely a secondry failure, ie lack of oil, but not a rod failure.

Carrillo will analyze your rod failure, no matter what brand of rod you have. They will give their best opinion of what caused it for free. For money they will actually analyze the failure, but I suspect their best opinion is just about as good. If you were using Carrillo rods they will definately analyze the failure. So all of the so called Carrillo failures I have heard of, submit the rods to Carillo, and give us their opinion of why they failed, not some seat of the pants bs of why you think they failed. Carrillo has real engineers, that eat, breathe, sleep and live connectiong rods, there are no better sources of analysis than these people.

If you don't at least submit to Carrillo your failed rods, for a free analysis, please shut up about your personal theory, unless you have more experience in rods than they do, or at least submit their analysis as opposed to yours.

I personally use Carrillo rods. Why? Because for an extra few hundred bucks in a bo koo bucks engine, wtf would anyone take a chance with anything else?

I am not connected to Carrillo in any way, I just don't like companys that claim to be as good as they are when they are not. If you do not take every single step that Carrillo does in processing its steel, and rods, you are likely to miss something. And if you do not use their bolts, with asymetric threads, a $40ea kind of bolt vs a $2 kind of bolt, or equivalent (NOT ARP), you are giving up a lot. If you can't walk the walk, you are not in the running.

To put it quite simply. You pay $15k to $50K for your race engine. For the $1K bucks, at most, for the best rods in the world, vs something that MIGHT break. Whats the smart choice?

Last edited by snowman; 10-19-2006 at 08:05 PM..
Old 10-19-2006, 07:41 PM
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and what about Pankl rods ?
i have a couple from an old (95) F1 engine, they are great pieces !
Old 10-19-2006, 11:02 PM
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I would second that comment. [although I hesitate to get involve in a debate with snowman ]

Pankl manufactures an exceptional product. Historically used in most Porsche factory racing engines. This would include TAG FI engines.
At this piont I believe that Ferrari uses Pankl.

It is hard to know what rods F1 teams are using but to say "all" seems to beg debate.
I would be willing to bet [of course with no evidence] that Cosworth uses Cosworth rods. (only guessing)

I like Carrillos but they are not the only "best " choice.

I believe with some research you will find that most current Porsche victories in pro racing have engines with Pankl rods.

From the Pankl wedsite:
Championships

* Formula1
* DTM
* World Rallye Championship

The success of Pankl Racing Systems is closely linked to international racing. The racing teams of the Formula 1, the WRC , the DTM and the US series CART, IRL and NASCAR are all joined to Pankl in partnerships that have grown over the years with the common goal of perfecting the technical performance of racing cars. The victories captured with Pankl speak for themselves.

Sucess in international racing sports since 1985:
Racing Series Number of Wins
Formula 1 107 Grand Prix Wins
Indy Car (IRL) 6 Indy Car Champions, 4 Wins Indy 500
CART (Champ Car) 3 CART Champions
NASCAR 1 Champion Nextel Cup,
5 Champions in 4 NASCAR series
LeMans (24 hours) 9 Champions
DTM 5 Champions
WRC - World Rally 8 Champions
American LeMans 6 Champions in 3 series
Superbike 5 Champions
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Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 10-20-2006 at 05:55 AM..
Old 10-20-2006, 05:43 AM
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$1000 for Carrillos? Please tell me where.
Old 10-20-2006, 07:08 AM
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My dad had a Carrillo fail in his 2.0L (secondary). Too expensive.... Pauter: less expensive maybe better windage.
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Old 10-20-2006, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimCulp
$1000 for Carrillos? Please tell me where.
Remember, snowman is a 912 guy only 4 rods

I will say that $1000 is about the difference between rebuilding your old rods (properly) and buying new Carrillos.
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Old 10-20-2006, 07:52 AM
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8 Years of reving to 8,200 RPM's Carillo Rods No Failures
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Old 10-20-2006, 08:57 AM
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Just bought a set of Carillo's.....my logic was that I have a brand new case, brand new oil pump, a brand new crankshaft, brand new Mahle 98mm P/C's.....why the heck would I stop now and use rebuilt rods....

But then, I am actually insane...

Thanks for the confirmation Snowman.....I am sure there are other rods as good, but I think that I will never see the day when the rods fail in my normal (street) service....

Dennis
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Old 10-20-2006, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Minkoff
8 Years of reving to 8,200 RPM's Carillo Rods No Failures
Here's one: How did you get GE 60 cams to make power at 8200 rpm ? They are generally considered to have a toque / power curve from 4500-7500

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Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 10-21-2006 at 08:23 AM..
Old 10-20-2006, 07:08 PM
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I'm a believer.

Run Carillos in two differnt motors for my 356 coupe for 10+ years. 7,500+ all day [usually it's other things that fail ] in sprints, enduros, you name it. Even got a t-shirt from 'em.

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Old 10-20-2006, 07:52 PM
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If anyone actually read what I said, I said an extra $1000, ie the price of cheap rods plus $1000. Why in the world use USED rods when you can have new ones, no fatigue or cycling on them that might cause failure?

Anyone who claims failures of Carrillo, Mr. Schmidt, please present their failure analysis, its free after all.

As to special rods used for F1, they are NOT available to anyone else, and they are very special, designed to exact specs, that again are not available to anyone else. Generic Carrillo rods are available to all, and they make the best general spec rods in the world. Of course all the cup cars, f1 cars use special, unique rods, specifically designed by their own engineers, to work with their unique pistons and piston pins, in specific applications. According to Carrillo the exact application makes a difference in rod design. The amount of deformation of the piston pin, the piston itself, the exact rpm range, the duration of the run, everything makes a difference. So unless you have a bunch of engineers to design your own rods for your specific race engine, you are comparing apples and oranges when you compare f1 and cup type rods to what’s available to anyone else. Those special rods Porsche used to win are NOT available to you at any price, unless you can design one like it yourself. And even then you would have to have those very special piston pins and pistons Porsche actually used.. Current price on a cup type piston is over $900ea. That doesn’t include the custom hand lapped, ultra thin, ultra low tension rings, the custom hand lapped ring lands, the NRE that’s in the mega bucks. For a cup car those bucks buy 850 HP vs 750 HP.

True story. I have on two occasions, ran across someone at the track with a broken engine, bunch of guys looking at a broken mess. Both times, honest to G, I heard the guys say, well I guess we need to use Carrillo rods next time. I have never heard someone say they should do something different. Like use reconditioned Porsche rods
.

Last edited by snowman; 10-20-2006 at 10:12 PM..
Old 10-20-2006, 09:43 PM
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Pelican's catalog has for 3.0 78-83:
Genuine Porsche Rods - set of 6 @ $ 2081.00
Carrillo Rods - set of 6 @ $ 1775.00

When did Carrillo rods become cheaper than Porsche's? Or have they always been? Or are the Pelican listed Carillo's not the one's to have and compare?
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Old 10-21-2006, 05:43 AM
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Re: Carrillo Rods

Quote:
Originally posted by snowman
............ Thats why all the formula one, Cup cars and anyone who is a serious racer uses them. .........
Snowman
I was just pointing out that in your bloviating you overstated your case.
Not all teams in F1 (if any) or Nascar use Carrillo rods. As stated by Pankl, 107 F1 wins since 85. That is almost half of all F1 wins since '85. That would lead me to guess that Scuderia Ferrari runs Pankl. If they thought Carrillos were best, they would use them.
Pankl also states 1 Nextel Cup championship. Since the Nextel Cup is only three years old (Winston Cup before) you can assume (perhaps incorrectly) that either Joe Gibbs Racing or Jack Roush Racing uses Pankl rods. Now, Nextel Cup as they state it may be their way of saying Nascars top racing, I don't know. But either way some Nascar teams have chosen other top quality rods.

Quote:
Originally posted by snowman
.......Those special rods Porsche used to win are NOT available to you at any price,............
That's goofy

As for Top flight Porsche race teams using Pankl rods, Porsche race cars (GT3RSR 996 and 997, Porsche Cup....) come stock from the factory with titanium Pankl rods. They have since the mid 80s. They are available as raced from many sources including Pankl, the Porsche dealer and Supertec.

I am certain that some teams will be replacing their titanium Pankl rods with Carrillo but my guess is, most won't. The replacement will probably be do to cost not quality.

Finally
The english language has some subtleties, so before you quote someone, read carefully and be accurate. It's only fair.
Just to put the "small end breaking " comment into historical perceptive with some accuracy, what I said was that "the only engines I saw where the small end of the rod broke, had Carrillo or titanium rods." To clarify, I never said the rods failed causing the break. Just that after the failure the small end broke and with stock rods you rarely see that.
The significance of that is that after a failure, the case may stand a better chance of surviving a rod failure if the small end stays in tact. Of course "no failure is better and with Carrillos your failure rate {over stock steel rods} will go down" ..

Now I'm bloviating, so it's time to stop.
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Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 10-21-2006 at 09:51 AM..
Old 10-21-2006, 07:30 AM
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Interesting on Pankl.

What is availability, range of lengths for Porsche and cost of their Ti rods?
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Old 10-21-2006, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Henry Schmidt
Here's one: How did you get GE 60 cams to make power at 8200 rpm ? They are generally considered to have a toque / power curve from 4500-7500

Did I say i was making power at 8200? No, I was simply stating that I do occationally rev up to that.
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Old 10-21-2006, 11:31 AM
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Be nice, guys. I can't afford Carillo or Pankl rods, so there's no point in delving in to this debate, but I don't want any of you guys hunting one another down over an opinion on someone elses's product like rabid soccer fans.
Old 10-21-2006, 01:43 PM
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Had to reach for the dictionary here.

blo·vi·ate (blv-t) Pronunciation Key
intr.v. Slan. blo·vi·at·ed, blo·vi·at·ing, blo·vi·ates
To discourse at length in a pompous or boastful manner: “the rural Babbitt who bloviates about ‘progress’ and ‘growth’” (George Rebeck).

Fighting words-

Schmidt to the neutral corner;
Snowman gets a standing count and some attention to that cut right eye;
and saved by the bell. Will he come out swinging next round?
can't wait!
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Old 10-21-2006, 04:55 PM
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Porsche apparently wants to sell cars, not connecting rods.

Carrillo makes Ti rods as well as their special alloy ones. About $1000 ea for the Ti ones. They have a new alloy thats cheaper than Ti, about $800ea. Then theres the standard H beam and the new less costly A beam. That might by the ones that are cheaper than the Porsche ones. I really don't know. If the Porsche Ti rods are only $2k per set, they are a bargain. Most top race teams are involved in the detailed design of their engines, especially if they are tearing them down after every race. Does anyone really think that they let their secrets get handed out to the competition?

Last edited by snowman; 10-21-2006 at 07:51 PM..
Old 10-21-2006, 07:36 PM
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Nice try, do you just make this stuff up as you go?

Porsche wants to make a top quality car that suited to their high performance image.

The GT3RSR are so reliable that the director of one support team, told me "they had to adjust their pricing schedule in order to make a profit".
When the cars were first released they (support team) expected engine rebuilds and freshen ups. They were so few and far between that the team was actually losing money based on loss of expected revenue.

BTW: Most of these engines are built by PMNA and they refit Pankl Ty rods. It's no secret. Ask Roger

BTW: The Daytona 24 hr poll sitter (by definition the fastest car at Daytona) Alex Jobs /Emory Racing Crawford Porsche used Pankl/Porsche production rods. That's no secret either.
Call Rod and ask him, he'll tell you.

They did have problems that prevented their overall win, but that problem was axle related. My guess: Pankl didn't make the axles.


Snowman, you're dangling from a thread, grasping at straws. It's time to let this one go.
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Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 10-22-2006 at 06:58 AM..
Old 10-22-2006, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cupcar
Interesting on Pankl.

What is availability, range of lengths for Porsche and cost of their Ti rods?
Porsche GT3 pankl rods come in at least 3 varieties. 2 different rod bolt configurations, 2 different lengths and two different wrist pin sizes. The latest version is longer and has a 21 mm wrist pin. Weight is 410-440 grams.
All of them cost right around $600 ea.



As I've stated before, Porsche rarely built a racing engine using the large rod journal like that of the stock 3.2, 3.3, 3.6 crank. 99% of all race engines are built using a 3.0 style rod.
(large journal rod design is unacceptable).
This means that in order to use Pankl ty rods you will need a GT3 crank or modify your crank to suit.
We have been putting 3.0 rods on large journal cranks for years with amazing success. 0 failures, just to be clear zero failures
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Last edited by Henry Schmidt; 10-22-2006 at 07:46 AM..
Old 10-22-2006, 06:57 AM
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