Any experience with Vision Motorsports

[Steve RSM]

I am thinking about having some engine work done and live pretty close to Vision Motorsports in SoCal. It is an SC engine. Anybody had any engine work done there?

I have visited the shop for other reasons and it looks pretty nice. Lots of race cars sitting around and a dedicated engine assembly area.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Steve

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by Steve RSM
I am thinking about having some engine work done and live pretty close to Vision Motorsports in SoCal. It is an SC engine. Anybody had any engine work done there?

I have visited the shop for other reasons and it looks pretty nice. Lots of race cars sitting around and a dedicated engine assembly area.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Steve

My good friend owns the shop...

What are you looking to do with the motor?

Ralph

[Turbo_pro]

Vision does very good work but for the early 911 engines you're better off with Supertec.
They only do engines on early 911s and as you'll see of this forum, no one does it better. They are pretty close (So. Cal.) and they offer the best warranty in the business.

[Steve RSM]

Engine is out and completely torn down. I pulled it because of massive oil leaks after the last track day. The only problems I have found so far are some broken top rings. Studs are OK but there are signs of corrosion so they will be replaced.

I am looking for machine shop services and advice. I hope to put it back together myself but may eventually turn it over to a professional if I can't make the time or am not enjoying it.

I may look into a dyno run prior to re-installing but I am not sure if anyone supports 911's in that regard around here. Especially with the CIS on there.

As far as mods go I have not decided. When its done I want it to pass smog and run on pump gas. I use the car for weekends and track days only. I also hope to have a track only configuration (not smog legal) that can be converted without pulling the engine.

Steve

[sww914]

Sounds like Supertec is just what you need. Good machine work and he gives lots of advice, when solicited.

[89turbocabmike]

Ollies is even closer in Santa Ana for solid machine work, but you should know what you want them to do. If you need work and advice, then Henry's a good way to go.

[Carrera3.5L]

Steve,

It sounds like you heading down the path for a "compromise" motor. You want/need it to pass smog now (which means keeping the CIS and mild cams) but also want to easily make it into a hot rod motor down the line (which means ditching the CIS, pistons & mild cams for starters)... This may be tough to do without going inside the motor again (i.e. pistons & cams) when you change the induction. You could at least prep the bottom end in anticipation of things to come at a later date and not have to split the case...

When you mean pass smog, do you mean actually passing the visual and dyno test or...

You are fortunate that there are many good engine builders right here in Orange County. Vision, Hergesheimers, AASCO, Andial, Performance Developments just to name a few are all literally at your doorstep and Ollie's does the sublet machine work for many of them as well. These companies build motors as well as anyone and from mild to wild...you are only limited by your wallet...you should also consider Supertec, Henry seems to be more "internet friendly" than some of the other shops and would probably take images for you during the rebuild whereas some of the other shops may not want to be bothered...

There are also many qualified people who will build motors after hours at a fraction of the cost to the same level that one would expect with a high-level "professional" rebuild...talk with POC/PCA people who have had motors done and get their feedback on these shops. I wouldn't solely base my decision on what a few people on the internet offer for opinions, none of which you probably know and don't know what their motives are. In short, you have MANY options to explore...

I would suggest calling and/or visiting as many as you have time for to get their opinions as to how they would proceed with your motor project, see their facility, get a ballpark price quotation and most importantly, see who you feel most comfortable spending money with. It's usually not a coincidence (but certainly sometimes can be) that the most impressive facilities build the nicest engines/cars...

If you want to tackle it yourself, I'd be happy to help you and can also give you a whole list of local companies that I use for discounted parts, machine work, metal finishing, etc. You're literally just down the street...

I have to warn you though, I work with a taillight warranty (as in when my taillights disappear, so does your warranty...

Ralph

[BReyes]

Welcome.

There is a difference between a shop and a machine shop.

The first step is to make a budget. And Wayne's book is a must read (reread).

Then have it cleaned and inspected/measured to make sure all the parts are within spec. And rebuild the heads. This requires a Posrche machine shop.

Depending on your budget you can decide which parts to upgrade.

Putting it back together is the hardest part, and I commend you for wanting to do it.

You can obtain lots of help on this forum, and Ralph has already stepped forward. I could definitely see him helping you time the cams.

Good luck.

Regards,

[Turbo_pro]

Originally posted by Carrera3.5L



...you should also consider Supertec, Henry seems to be more "internet friendly" than some of the other shops and would probably take images for you during the rebuild whereas some of the other shops may not want to be bothered..........

.............. It's usually not a coincidence (but certainly sometimes can be) that the most impressive facilities build the nicest engines/cars... ........................

I

Ralph
You are correct in your assumption about Supertec. They will BOTHER to do those things that will make your Porsche experience as rewarding as possible.

As for your statement about facilities. By your logic McDonalds has the best food and the best repair work is performed at the dealer. Not true on both counts.
My experience is that fancy (impressive) facilities generally means higher overhead. No more, no less.

Dick Elverude works in a barn. You'll find no better Porsche mechanic around.

[Steve RSM]

I agree on the "compromise" motor. However, the first priority is to keep the car legal, basically because when/if I get tired of it I want to be able to sell it as a street car. I took a huge loss on a race car once before and need to avoid that again if possible.

If its reasonable and afforbable I would love to put a alternate high hp motor in there with the only requirement being that it can run on pump gas.

I will put together my "clean and inspect" checklist and call these places and see what they think. I have so many Porsche books I don't have time to read them so hopefully I will cover all the bases, but perhaps I'll post it here for feedback.

I have to try and put it together myself because all my neighbors say I can't do it! I've done many engines, but never a Porsche!

Steve

[Rob Channell]

Dwayne at Vision is a good guy. I had him do several things to my car back in the 1996 time frame when I was "out there".

One of the guys in POC had him start building a hot 3.0 and then had to cut back at the end because his wife found out how much he was spending. The bottom end of that motor was said to have been almost like a 962 motor. That thing revved real fast. It must have had everything that rotated lightened and balanced.

I had Henry at Supertec do the heads on my 2.7 top-end project and he was a pleasure to deal with as well.

You have lots of excellent resources in your part of the country. Keep us posted.

[Carrera3.5L]

Originally posted by solowerks
As for your statement about facilities. By your logic McDonalds has the best food and the best repair work is performed at the dealer. Not true on both counts.
My experience is that fancy (impressive) facilities generally means higher overhead. No more, no less.

Dick Elverude works in a barn. You'll find no better Porsche mechanic around.

I guess I have no idea what you are talking about, I don't get the reference with McDonald's and the dealer...maybe you can dumb it down for me? I can't speak for every dealer, but I do know of 3 very good technicians down at Newport Auto Center that are perfectly capable of repairing/maintaining an air-cooled 911/930 and would be surprised to learn that an apparent expert on the internet thinks that they would provide anything less...

It is quite arrogant, ignorant and naive to boldly proclaim that there are "none better" than one or two people. How did you arrive at this conclusion? A book you read or something you saw on the internet? What qualifies you that you can make this determination that others are apparently missing? Do you work in this industry where you can see other peoples work on a regular basis? Have you had motors built by anyone else other than Supertec or Dick Elverude? There are alot of guys with very expensive cars & motors out there that might need to know that they are throwing their money away with someone else...

For the record, I don't believe that there is a "best" person(s) out there, what may be the best scenario for one person may not be for another. I just listed a few shops/individuals to investigate locally, there are plenty more out there, both in the West and on the East Coast.

You seem to be a cheerleader for Supertec, and there is nothing wrong with that since you seem to have had a good experience with them, but your experience may not mirror others just like there are people that don't like Andial, Vision, Hergesheimer's, insert company name here which is why one should investigate as many options as possible before deciding on what is best for them...

As an example, Henry has posted in the past that he has only been using Threebond 1104 for 4-5 years, while Andial/Porsche Motorsport has been using it for over 20 years. Does this mean Henry has been screwing up all these years and building inferior motors? No, of course not. Andial uses dilivar head studs for all motors and stock rod bolts/nuts for 3.2L/3.3L motors (that's right, a little secret I let out) and yet they've earned a reputation as being the benchmark for Porsche high-performance and maintenance. Does this make them inferior to others because they don't use the parts of choice from the Pelican internet "bench racers"? Of course not.

You are certainly entitled to bury your head in the sand in your belief that Mr. Elverude & Mr. Schmidt are the only ones who apparently can build a nice, high quality Porsche motor and that all others fall short...that may be your experience, but it isn't mine (and many others). Hey, if it makes you sleep better...

I'm sure that Steve will do his due diligence and whether the outcome leads to anyone referenced in earlier posts or someone completely different or he simply builds it himself, he'll make an educated selection based on the feedback that he receives from his research as well as his own "gut feeling".

Ralph

[Turbo_pro]

Calm down Ralph

When did proclaiming one persons excellence become an attack on others ?
Nowhere have I ever stated that Dick or Henry were the only choices. I just say they are great choices.
By the way, I'm not the only one who thinks so. Just read this forum.
The term "none better" is simply a way to say he does it right. Stellar reputations are hard to come by, Dick has one.
In the term "none better" there is no attack stated or implied. In fact it implies that some do it as well.
That is not to say he is the "best" either.
There are far too many people saying bad things about mechanics. I feel it's time to say something good.

The comments about Mcdonalds and the dealer are both personal observations.
MD is the most successful food service facility on the planet.
Clean, well organized and profitable. One might even say impressive. (your word)
Good service? sometimes, more often than not poor.
Good food ? taste is a matter of preference but it certainly isn't healthy. In this case impressive facility does not equate IMHO to quality service.

As for dealerships. My experience has been that when working with an automobile technician communication is key. Dealerships seem to offer an impediment to communicating with the tech. I have also found that dealerships train young mechanics and quite often they are not experienced enough to offer the best service. Lack of experience sometimes leads to parts changing and unnecessarily high bills. When I have found a good tech at the dealer he seems to move on to his own operation.

One again the purpose of my post was not to denigrate anyone but to say that facilities are simply a delivery system for a service. Good (impressive ) facilities don't guarantee quality service.
That old adage "you can't judge a book by the cover" absolutely applies here.

[pdqcarrera]

Hi Steve,

To answer your question specifically -- Vision rebuilt my 3.2 Carrera motor and did a fine job. It was done on time and came in under budget. Imagine that!! ;-) Several years and lots of racing hours later it's still healthy. Other than good reliability upgrades (valves, springs, retainers, rod-bolts) the motor is completely stock (per race class rules I run in) and so it's nothing otherwise special.

Cheers!

p.s. Howdie to Rob Channell - long time no talk to - hope you're doing well there Southern Man!

[Rob Channell]

Hey Ross. Good to hear from you. We are hangin' in there. Not much racing going on with 5 kids, but I try to get to the track when I can.

Hope you and yours are doing well.

[126coupe]

Duane at Vision Motorsports is a stand up guy. He cornerbalanced and aligned my race car and did a fine job.
He is also a great driving instructor.