Oil and the removal of ZINC

snowman · 02-09-2007, 07:35 PM

I just sat thru a presentation by a major cam company. Part of that presentation had to do with the clandestine removal of ZN from our oil. For some reason the government has mandated its removal. Why do we care?

Well according to the cam company, any engine that uses flat tappet lifters, or lifters that do not have rollers on them (think of the 356 and 911 engines) will destroy themselves due to the lack of the lubricating properties of Zinc. It seems that the sliding surfaces that are splash lubricated cannot endure without the staying properties of the Zn. Only Shell Rotella and similar truck and diesel oils still have the necessary lubs to keep our engines alive.

According to the Cam company this was not widespread knowledge as they were not told and consequently they had a large rash of cam failures as a result. The gov required it, the industry did it, and did not tell anyone about it.

Anyone else have knowledge of this problem??

Steve@Rennsport · 02-09-2007, 08:35 PM

Jack:

There are some recent and VERY informative threads on Pelican on this & related subjects.

Do a search for ZDDP to get you started.

id911T · 02-13-2007, 01:41 PM

In watercooled VW circles this problem has been going around for awhile. Seems some of the aftermarket cams will pit rapidly without zinc disulfide in the oil. I run Delo 400 in mine because of that.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

I believe there are some additives that will replace the ZDDP.

Plenty of builders here, have you guys seen excessive cam wear more frequently in the last 12 months? (or are we still running on New Old Stock oil?)

snowman · 08:14 PM

According to Comp cams they have experienced a rash of cam failures due to the removal of Zn. They claim ANY engine that has sliding surfaces, like flat tappet lifters will fail with the new oils. I suspect that engines that are well broken in will not suffer as quickly as a new assembly, but only time will tell.

They sell a cam conditioner that they recommend for new cam installs. Now they recommend it at every oil change. It has a lot of Zinc in it.

For oil they only recommend Shell Rotella diesel. And that may not last over the next 2 years.

I tend to believe what they say. They sell cams, not oil.

SP2 · 02-14-2007, 12:19 AM

Delo 400 is good oil, but the latest gallon bottle now says "LE" for "Low Emissions". Uh oh, the government is screwing up Delo Diesel oils now. And the Shell Rotella also has a new bottle with a big blue label on it. Hopefully this isn't low emission stuff too. I hope the LE doesn't mean low ZDDP, but I bet it does.

JBO · 02-14-2007, 05:51 AM

Mobil 1 15-50 still has sufficient levels of ZDDP.

cstreit · cstreit's Garage

Here's a well written discussion on LNEngineerings site:

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

There is a listing of oils with the concentration of Zinc and Phos. concentrations. However I'm sure this will change. Also it references an additive by GM to boost it as well.

cnavarro · 02-14-2007, 06:51 AM

All my tests have been conducted AFTER the introduction of the newest SM standard, so as long as they don't change standards again, my tests should be current, with exception of the new CJ-4 diesel oil standard, which calls for a max of 1000ppm of P, no specified limit on Zn as far as I can tell.

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

What does the "Lubemeister" (Lubemaster) say about all of this?

cnavarro · 02-16-2007, 09:47 AM

He likes Amsoil (correct me if I am wrong). I agree that Amsoil makes an excellent product equal to, if not slightly better than Mobil 1 and other specialty synthetics. I would not hesitate to use Amsoil and do use it in various other cars I service.

ghnat · ghnat's Garage

When I read the title and posts what ran through my mind was this really funny part in Kentucky Fried Movie "Zinc Oxide and You". If you know what I am talking about it is really funny.

Now, once my rebuild is done what dino oil would be a good for first run? I guess I should go synthetic after a couple of oil changes. Any thoughts?

cnavarro · 02-17-2007, 04:07 AM

I know a lot of builders who use Castrol GTX for break-in, but I'm planning on giving either Brad Penn / Penn Grade Break or Joe Gibbs Racing Break-in oils a try at some point.

Still some prefer a non-detergent. On my last engine I used Exxon Aviation Piston Engine Break-in non-detergent, along with a bottle of GM EOS (was a 356 engine, so not that much capacity- you'll need much more EOS for a 911 engine).