Break-in oil

[Scott Clarke]

Sorry if this has been covered before, but the search function's dislike of two letter words makes a search difficult. I'm finally about ready to fire up the 2.5, and wondered if I should use any special oil for the first run. I have seen the endless thread concerning recent developments in oil technology, but am wondering if it would be wise to use anything out of the ordinary for the initial fire.

Thanks,
-Scott

[AngM018]

Brad-Penn Break in oil.

Or you can use castrol IF you add in some GM E.O.S. assembly lube.

I did brad penn for the beginning oil, then castrol plus eos for the second oil change. You can find brad-penn on ebay, and it was the cheapest I could find anywhere. I think it was Long Island Performance that I purschased it from.

[Mo_Gearhead]

I've assembled many engines over the years but only ONE P-car engine (2.0) so FWIW:

Assuming you have used a good 'assembly lube' during the rebuild (on cam lobes and cam bearings, rocker faces, rod and main bearings, etc., I NEVER used anything other than the oil I intended to run. After getting the engine running, carbs/injection/timing etc. set... take it for a drive and upon return change the oil and filter!

New engines, no matter how well you cleaned/assembled them, will have metal particles on a new rebuild as things wear in. Cheap insurance.

[Scott Clarke]

I certainly intend to change the oil after running for 20 minutes or so. I see Brad Penn break in oil in 30W on ebay. Do they make a multi-weight break in oil, or is straight weight what I want?

[HawgRyder]

Let me get this straight, you spend 4 or 5 grand on a rebuild, and you are considering using less than the best oil in the engine for any period of time?
I use the oil I am going to run in the engine, run it to temperature (from 20 - 30 mins), then dump the oil and filter, strain the oil, cut the filter open, check everything.
Refill with the running oil, put 500 miles on it, drain and filter again.
Now I am on the 3000 mile/5000 Km sequence.
I have been using this method for over 40 years and have only had to take 1 engine apert after the first oil drop ( found some crud I did not like) in all that time.
I also have some engines out there that have been running for over 25 years on a regular basis (over the 1/2 million mile figure).
Good luck with yours.
Bob

[cnavarro]

There are numerous companies that make true break in oils, like the Brad Penn. They have extra Zn and P and usually are non-detergent, which improves the performance of the AW additives. Break in oil and cheap oil are not to be used in the same sentence. Usually break in oils are more expensive. The Brad Penn is a straight 30. One of my customers shop uses this exclusively on everything from a stock rebuild to a full race engine. Cams get broken in, engine gets a few pulls on the dyno to get it up to temp. Drain, cool, adjust valves or anything else needing attention, then fill with Brad Penn 20w50 until at least 2k miles. If the customer wants, then they can go fully syn. This is his procedure and has helped reduce the extremely high rate of cam and lifter failures they had been experiencing when using Castrol GTX 20w50 at break in and afterwards. They have been doing this now for two years.

[Scott Clarke]

Bob-
NO! I'm just trying to figure out if what is ideal for break in is different than what would be ideal after break in.

Charles-
Thanks for that info. That sounds like a good plan.

[ONQRACIng]

Look into CMW Oil..... http://www.cmwoil.com/ Great stuff!!

[911 tweaks]

maybe Charles can check this out and add it to his list of tested oils?

onqracing, do you have any experience using any of the cmw products? If so, how do they compare to other products you have used?

thx for the post! i have never herd of this company...how long havw their products been around??

Bob

[ONQRACIng]

We use CMW for custom JE Piston CNC work, plus Billet heads for our 3.7 Stroker and 3.8 race engines. Their work is excellent, and Scott is great to deal with. They have been in business for quite sometime. Check out their website for further details, http://www.cmwmotorsports.com/

They are new in the oil game, but I am sure it is the same quality as their other endeavors..
Andrew

[cnavarro]

I have used and tested CMW's oils and their various assembly lubes - and can recommend them wholeheartedly. Top notch, but expensive. But you get what you pay for. CMW sells billet heads for the 911, among other products for various other platforms. They used to make cylinders too, before they approached me back in late '03 to make cylinders for them. The rest is history :-)

[911 tweaks]

Thanks Andrew & Charles!
Andrew- how new to the oil game are they? I know "0" about their oil products. Can you comment on how they compare to Brad Penn, Mobli1, Sweepco and any other favorites?
Basically I am curious if their product is "great" as Charles says, is their an "equilivant" that costs less? Maybe not a fair q to ask since I am betting their "package of additives" is different from others, thus, they are on a "different playing field level" and you really cant compare apples and oranges as the saying goes.
Charles- please comment on the above asked of Andrew. Also, are you making the cyl's now for CMW ? Also, it has been a while since I have seen your oil list summary & stats...is CMW on the list?
Thanks guys and sorry for the interuption to the original poster!!
Bob

[ONQRACIng]

I still have a set of their old Aluminum Rods for my 3.7..

[cnavarro]

CMW's oil racing oil additive is listed on my site. I did run it in my hot street 356 engine that made 170 HP, which did seem a bit high, all things considered. Being I have seen huge increases in HP based on just lubricant changes, I guess it could have been their race oil concentrate. The hp numbers from our baseline with non-detergent break in oil to syn oil with their additive was about 25 hp, but there were many tuning changes between.

CMW's lubricants are significantly more money than anything you can get at Autozone, or even Brad Penn or Swepco by quite a few orders of magnitude. But you do get what you pay for.

Aluminum rods have their place, but not in an aircooled engine IMHO :-) Their life is measured in quarter mile passes, not miles. I should know, the guys I work with at R&R who do the billet steel rods for me have been doing aluminum rods for decades (and have the best material, design, and quality IMHO too!).

[ONQRACIng]

I agree regarding the AL Rods, 4 of the 6, during this rebuild of the 3.7, had small cracks at the rod bolt head location, at first we thought the washers might have been installed upside down, but they weren't.. Now we run Cunningham, no issues...
A

[911 tweaks]

Charles- can you say that CMW oil does increase hp? If it does, it sounde like it may be worth it if the next best thing, ie. mobil1 is $4/qt and CMW is maybe $6/qt? The additional $2/qt x 11 qts = $22 extra for the oil for 10+? hp?
Can you provide any specifics or maybe where to go on your oil summary info?
Thanks again!
Bob

[Jeff Alton]

Royal Purple Max Cycle 20/50 which I think Charles said made HP is 12.75 per quart up here ......


For break in, I used castrol 30 wieght non- detergent with GM EOS added.

I think I am going to run the Brad Penn after break in, but may still consider the RP stuff.

Cheers

[Eagledriver]

Since you plan to change it after 20 minutes how could it possibly matter what oil you use. The different wear rates between oils is measured in thousands of miles not 20 minutes. I use any name brand for the quick break in. Last time I used Chevron 10-30 and changed it after a couple of hours. I prefer to use a cheap oil in hopes that I will actually get more wear on the rings to get a quick seat, but in truth I doubt it makes any difference.

-Andy

[cnavarro]

The CMW Race Oil Additive is over $50/qt when I bought it in 2005- the racing oils are in that realm from my correspondence with them, so no comparison, but I think they are similarly priced. Like I said, no comparison but their performance I would have to put pretty high in my book when it comes to specialty synthetics. Also helps they were engineered and tested by a Porsche guy :-)

[911 tweaks]

WOW!!!!!!!! One would have to do some serious # crunching if running ALL CMW oil.
Charles- The race oil additive...is that a 1 qt added to the 10 and hp measurably goes up?
Maybe I need to call them tomorrow.
Thanks everyone!!