Broken head stud
 

Sorry about posting this in two different forums.

A little history for you. Three months ago I purchased a 1979 911sc from a fellow pelicanite. I asked a ton of questions and negotiated a fair price for the car he said he had. The car is 95% of what he described. A few minor things were left out. Not a big deal. That can be expected and you deal with it. Before the purchase I asked if he had done a ppi and a leakdown test.

Here is the response, "Hi there & thanks. Yes there was a ppi done. Compression was 135-140 in all cylinders with ZERO leakdown (test was done with 100psi in cylinders). It has the pop off valve, but not the chain tensioners. Has ssi's and new exhaust. I think it has the green bilsteins??? It's at my mechanic's shop in storage. Brakes are stock I think. Car is nice and drives beautifully. No one has looked at it yet. I have an interested party in Michigan. I misplaced the title so I'm waiting on it to come back from the state. Comes with the a/c stuff that was taken off. Let me know if I can answer any more questions. Thanks, Dan"

I brought the car home and drove it less than 75 miles and everything seemed good. I was happy with my purchase. It snowed 6 inches that night so it went into storage in my heated garage were I have spent the last three months tinkering and getting it ready for my first track day.

Monday night I went out to put the valve covers back on the car because i wanted replace the seals because of a small leak. To my dismay I found a barrel nut sitting before me. Upon further investigation I saw the pulled stud.

I have been asking for the results in writing for quite some time. The test was done by a certified Porsche Ferrari and Bentley mechanic in Pittsburgh. It was done in his private shop where he does work on the side. I visited his shop and talked to him about the car. I was told as recent as last Friday that the testing was done right before I made the buy.

The question is can you get these kind of results with a broken head stud? Compression was 135-140 in all cylinders with ZERO leakdown (test was done with 100psi in cylinders). Is this the correct procedure for testing by a certified Porsche mechanic? When i pulled the plugs they were extremely rusty Autolite plugs. I needed to switch to my big half inch wrench to get them out they were rusted in so tight.

Here are some pics of the stud. Does this look like a stud that was broken within the 75 miles? Would the car pass the tests with this stud pulled?

Before I let loose on these two I would like some opinions form my fellow Pelicanites. I feel that I may have been lied to but wanted your opinions first.



Justinhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1235613371.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1235613511.jpg


Thanks for your opinions.
Justin

First off sorry to hear about your troubles, I was there 2.5 years ago so I feel your pain. The PO's story sounds like BS to me, that stud has been broken for quite a while judging by the looks of it.

Here's my similar post on 8-23-06
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/300328-four-broken-head-studs.html

Lot's of help here on PP, good luck.

Im not going to say that I have actual experience with this, but I Don't think it is impossible that it could hold 100 psi- then again I have never done a leak down on a broken head stud car.

From the looks of it, that head stud has been broken for some time now.

As far as the leak down test, I am no expert in this area, however, with only one
(1) broken head stud it is (somewhat) possible. Statistically possible in view of the "bullet-proof" 3.0L engine engineering, but not a high probability statistical outcome in favor of those results. In other words, a slim chance that the leakdown is correct, but if I had the ca$h, I would get another PPI done by someone I trusted.

One has to balance the amount paid for the car with the utility of the car, as well as how many miles are on it and how the overall interior/exterior suffices to the amount of cash outlay.

Hope all goes well and by all means, "enjoy the car while you have it!"

Justin:

Forgot to mention this earlier, "Welcome to the Pelican forums!" Certainly, one of the best forums on the Internet for Porsche cars IMHO.

Also, for what it's worth...too much time has gone by to necessitate any action over previous ownership. This car is now yours and the problems/good things about it is inherently yours as well. Let it go and enjoy your Porsche car and take good care of it from this point forward. Believe me when I say this, "you will sleep better and be a better person for it."


What comes around goes around.

Agreed tibetan,

It's more a matter of principle. When a person sells you a car that he says was checked out by a certified porsche mechanic, it makes me feel comfortable. I don't plan on going after the guy or the mechanic. There is nothing I can do now. I love the car. It is now everything I wanted and more with the exception of the motor. I did think that with a PPI and leakdown that I was garaunteed to know if a head stud had pulled or not. This is the burning question that I was seeking the answer to. I guess from what I am hearing it is possible. The question now becomes what do I do about it? I plan on tracking the car for some DE days this summer which makes the smart thing to do to rebuild now before I cause more damage on the track. Opinions?

I think WHAT blind sided you is you did not pay for or select the inspector
Now you are on the " he said I said' road to no where fast.
If the previous owner wants to compensate you.... well and good (or partly)
The thing is "he" had it inspected and on face value you both agreed that was good enough..or you would have had it done by your guy.
Buyer be ware !
You cant fault the guy for trusting his own inspector person...the inspector made a mistake , Will he pay ?
I doubt it.
Fix it , move on, Or this will make you bitter.
There are much worse things in the world, @ least you did not wreck it 1st time out on the track !http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...eys/loki16.gif

Used car, it happens. Too bad it happened, but it's too late now. Fix it and drive the wheels off.

The plan
 

Thanks for all the input fellas.
I am over it now and ready to move on except for the little bastard sitting on my shoulder. He may sit there for a bit yet.:mad:
Here is what I am thinking.......

How's this sound?


New rings
Valve job
valve springs
valve guides
race wear head studs all around
rebuild/repair intake manifolds
964 cams
J&E pistons
new seals all around
check the clutch and replace disc at a minimum
overall inspection to take care of hoses and the like

Loading the truck to send the car this week end.

anything else while in the shop?

If you haven't bought it yet, I would highly recommend Wayne's book "How to Rebuild and Modify Porsche 911 Engines". I found it very informative before I rebuilt the top end on my '86 3.2 engine. Good overview even if you have a shop do the work.
From what I've read, the 993 Dilavar studs would be best on the exhaust side. They don't seem to have the problems of the previous dilavar's. Don't neglect the CIS, have it checked. I'd also make sure the fuel tank is clean and rust free, and fuel lines are not old and cracked. And while your in there check suspension bushings and brake lines and calipers.

You forgot chain tensioners update and popoff valve if not installed yet. Updated idler arms and new chain ramps too.
With that kind of plan, you can almost thank the PO to have sold you a car with broken headstuds, because that gives you the excuse to do all that :).

If you pay a mechanic do do it, it makes sense while you are in there...
But, since your leakdown numbers were good, you could also take the DYI route and just replace headstuds, rings, and be done for a lot less money. In the end, it all depends how much you want to spend...