Need Help on Carrera oil pump Update

kyriakos59 · 07-27-2009, 03:00 AM

I am rebuilding a 1974 Carrera 2,7 CIS Engine and I have used a new Carrera oil pump with all the neccessary update kit. I have not yet replaced the 2xOil Pressure Relief caps, springs and pistons. I have so far replaced the Oil Strainer Sump plate which is WITHOUT a drain plug. Could someone please inform me on how I will change engine oil in the future as I do not think that each time I will have to take out the oil stainer sump plate.

356RS · 356RS's Garage

Our host sells the "Mainely Oil Sump Plates" which has the drain plug and will work with the later oil pumps.

Flat6pac · 07-27-2009, 05:12 PM

Early case, did you drill the relief and plug the old hole?
That was the hot update about the time the early cases were rebuilt.
Bruce

kyriakos59 · 07-27-2009, 11:16 PM

Thank you Mark. I realised now that I must get an aftermaket oil sump plate with the drain plug.

Bruce you have me confused now. Can you be more specific about the "drill the relief and plug the old hole" . As you can see from the 1st picture there ar two oil relief screw plugs which I am planning to replace with new oil relief springs and oil relief pressure pistons and replace the screw plugs with Oil pressure releif Caps as these were in the kit I bought with the Carera oil pump from the host.
Must I do something else ?

Flat6pac · 07-28-2009, 04:01 AM

There was an update done in years past on your vintage case that drilled a hole behind the oil pump and tapped and plugged the factory hole and created a new relief oil return.
I had the tooling for years, it was a drill and a locator to hold the drill but I havent seen it in a long time.
Bruce

fredmeister · fredmeister's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyriakos59

Thank you Mark. I realised now that I must get an aftermaket oil sump plate with the drain plug.

Bruce you have me confused now. Can you be more specific about the "drill the relief and plug the old hole" . As you can see from the 1st picture there ar two oil relief screw plugs which I am planning to replace with new oil relief springs and oil relief pressure pistons and replace the screw plugs with Oil pressure releif Caps as these were in the kit I bought with the Carera oil pump from the host.
Must I do something else ?

do a search on youtube for videos from costa mesa r&d. The machinist "john" shows exactly what is done to the older cases as part of the oil bypass modification. i found this while poking around on there myself.
Good looking engine.

304065 · 07-28-2009, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyriakos59

Thank you Mark. I realised now that I must get an aftermaket oil sump plate with the drain plug.

Bruce you have me confused now. Can you be more specific about the "drill the relief and plug the old hole" . As you can see from the 1st picture there ar two oil relief screw plugs which I am planning to replace with new oil relief springs and oil relief pressure pistons and replace the screw plugs with Oil pressure releif Caps as these were in the kit I bought with the Carera oil pump from the host.
Must I do something else ?

Search here for "oil bypass mod"- if the modification has not been performed, do NOT update the bypass plugs with the later hexagonal ones.

kyriakos59 · 07-31-2009, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john_cramer

if the modification has not been performed, do NOT update the bypass plugs with the later hexagonal ones.

I have not performed the oil bypass modidication. You recommend not to update the bypass plugs with the later hexagonal ones. How about the springs and pistons that came with the update kit ?
Did you meant not to touch at all the 2 old screw type plugs ?

Peterfrans · 07-31-2009, 07:49 AM

If you did not do the bypass update, you should not use the plugs, springs and pistons that came in your kit.

kyriakos59 · 07-31-2009, 07:57 AM

I have not performed the oil bypass job but I have installed the later Carrera oil pump as you can see in the pictures.
I am not going to change the old oil relief pistons springs and plugs as you all recommend.
Can someone tell me whether I am going to have any problems as I have installed the later oil pump but not done the oil bypass job ?
In what respect does the oil bypass job helps ?

Peterfrans · 07-31-2009, 09:22 AM

the later oil pump has a bigger pressure pump section and a smaller scavenge sector (retaining the same overall size). The oil bypass update was done to compensate for the smaller scavenge pump as it dumps excess oil directly into the intake of the pressure pump in stead of into the sump. I would say that prolonged stays at high rpm could increase the level of oil in the sump, but I have no idea how bad that is. Probably also depends on the way you are going to use the car.

Eagledriver · 08-01-2009, 06:31 PM

I don't know if anyone has tried the newer pump without the bypass mod. You will be doing an experiment if you try, and you might have to take the engine apart again if it fails. Get the bypass mod done and use the new relief pistons.

-Andy

Bob Goding · 08-01-2009, 08:19 PM

Heres the mod info on you-tube.
You should have it done IMHO
I think it was done around '76
Good luck!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=IT&hl=it&v=lKuceDywEJg

Bob Goding · 08-02-2009, 06:19 AM

I knew I had this picture somewhere and I couldnt find it---its now 2.AM Monday morning and I remembered where it might be!----on a backup CD of my pics!
Theres a thread on Pelican that
discusses this ,but I have no idea where to find that!---Someone might recall it if we are lucky!!!

kyriakos59 · 08-02-2009, 08:29 AM

Thank you all for your good advice. Some you have me worried now. As you can see the case is closed now and Andy is suggesting that i should open the case and do the bypass modidfication otherwise I will be experimenting and the engine might fail !!!

Has anyone else put the new pump without the modification ????

4sd911 · 08-02-2009, 11:05 AM

I would open the case back up and have the mypass mod done. You will need this done by a machine shop.

Alan Goettel · 08-02-2009, 04:52 PM

It is a PIA but you have gone this far, cut your losses and split the case. Even if it doesn't go bad, you will always have to live with the the prospect that it might.

Peterfrans · 08-02-2009, 10:11 PM

And if you do split the case again (which is what I would do) you might also want to look into the amount of 574 to use, looking at the pic it seems you really used a lot of that stuff. You should use a very thin layer.

Peterfrans · 08-03-2009, 12:25 AM

one other observation, did you use some kind of self locking nuts on the oilpump, as you don't seem to have used the locktabs that are normally on there

kyriakos59 · 08-03-2009, 12:59 AM

Thank you all once more for your good advice. I really appreciate your time and help in this issue.
It seems that I would have to open the case and do the oil bypass modification as everyone recommends. So I will do that with the help of a machine shop. Even though I do not understand why you open a connecting hole and then you close it with a tap screw.

Peter,
I do not think that we use a lot of 574 as very little excess ammount came out when we put the 2 parts of the case together, which I think is something you want to have. If you do not get any excess 574 then you have put little amount.
Also about the nuts and the locktubs. Yes we have put the locktubs. They are underneath the new nuts and we have closed them a bit towards the screws for better fitness so you do not see them very much from the pictures.