Potential upgrade of a 2.2T

[Igofastr]

Howdy all,

I've got a 2.2T that I'm planning on upgrading. The condition of the motor is unknown at this point, though it may not matter too much.

What I'd like to do is build a hot street/track motor for a light early car. "Streetability" isn't really much of a concern, as I'm willing to put up with quit a lot.

Anyway, I'm relatively new to 911 motors, though I've built a few 912s, and have some experience with BB Fords (can I say that here?).

I'd like to use parts I already have, if they make sense, but will upgrade when machine costs excede the price of just buying a new part.

Under consideration: stroking the 2.2 with a 2.7 crank (yielding a 2.4) using s pistons and cams. Can I, should I use my T heads, or do I need to upgrade.

How about a SS 2.5. Should I upgrade to a 2.4 7r case, or just shuffle-pin the one I have. Since this would require 2.4 P/C, and headwork, should I just upgrade to 2.4 heads, or does it still make more sense to machine my 2.2T heads to fit. Assuming I'm going to also have to port them to get them to breath.

Now, going all out, what if I go to a 2.7/2.8/2.9 RSR build. New case, new crank...but same question about the heads? Should I start with 2.7 heads, or machine my 2.2s out?

Finally, when it comes to cam towers, are they all interchangeable? Other than the obvious...dizzy, case upgrades, cams, intake, is there something else I should really be considering? No matter what, I'll be buying new P/Cs, so that really doesn't factor directly into the equation.

Thanks for your input. I guess my questions come down to machine work versus different parts, and not being totally familiar with the different heads used over the years (S vs E vs T vs 2.7).

Ron

[cameron.arnott]

You can do anything you want......

What budget and for what use?

[356RS]

Well I'm no expert, but I can help you out on the head questions. Your 2.2 heads have the same valves, 40mm ex. 46mm in. as the 2.4 & 2.7. Only the port size changed. The 2.7 head is chamfered for the 90mm bore, the earlier 2.2 & 2.4 are not. Also the T heads from the 2.2 do not have an MFI port because they used carbs. The 2.2 - 2.4 E & S heads have the MFI port. But the 2.4 T heads in 72 did have the MFI port. I don't want to confuse you, so lets leave the 73 head out of this for now. Anyway, so you can use your 2.2 heads if your going to use carbs and have the ports opened up if needed.
There are many engine experts on the board that will chime in I'm sure. Hope I helped you out on the heads.
Ok, one more. The 73 head had MFI ports for all T, E & S, but in 73 1/2 there was a few T CIS heads.

[Igofastr]

Thanks so far, I took a look through Bruce Anderson's text, and that did answer some questions.

Mark, right about the valves and ports.

If I were to do a 2.5 SS, would it make more sense to just buy 2.7 heads ( I see some on ebay for less than $400), or does it make more sense to just machine out my 2.2s?

Thanks, Ron

[Igofastr]

Oh, and to reiterate: Hot street /DE track motor. Money is a relative object, I'm saving the big bucks for a 3.8L full race motor for another car. I expect to do the typical case mods, buy new P/Cs, cams, PMOs, but would rather use as much of what I have as makes sense. No Ti rods on this one.

Ron

[356RS]

Ron, If your going to use a "S" type cam you will need a head with larger ports. The 2.7 heads you see on e-bay may or may not have the "S" size (35mm in.) ports that you would need. Either way the heads will need to be rebuilt and your 2.2 T heads will work fine if ported to "S" spec if you decide to go that way. You said you wanted to use "your engine parts". Keeping your case, T crank & 2.2 rods will help make an affordable 2.5 engine. Remember, you can spend lots of money and still get it wrong if you don't have a well prepared plan and budget. Your on the right track with your questions and this is a great board for information.

[Igofastr]

I guess part of my conundrum has to do with shop costs.

First, I'm pretty much resigned to go with a 7r case. If I do a 2.5 SS, which is where I'm leaning, the spigots would have to be machined anyway. If I start with a 2.7 7R, I'm good to go, and no machining cost.

Looking at Bruces book, I thought that the 2.7 heads were already comprable to early S heads, and at least already have bigger valves...saving on machine costs (figure $3-400) for the raw 2.7 heads. I don't know what enlarging the valves, and a port job would cost on the 2.2T heads, but it's got to be more than that.

I should clarify, I'm not tied to my 2.2T parts, especially if it makes more sense to buy something else.

Mark,

Love your 356. I'll be hot-rodding my '64 C as soon as I finish a 912 that is in my wife's parking spot.

Are you anywhere near Parts Obsolete? The Emorys are my inspiration.

Ron

[356RS]

Ron, Your on the right track with the later 7R case. BTW your 2.2 heads have the same valve size as the 2.7 heads. Only the ports are different size. The 2.7 had 32/32 ports and 35/35 ports for the S. The RS had 36/35 ports. So if your looking for e-bay 2.7 heads, make sure there 35/35 "S" heads.
I almost did the same engine as your thinking of, with a 66mm crank and 7R case, but went with 93mm pistons to get a 2.7 short stroke.
Emorys is about 90 miles from me. Great family.

[Igofastr]

Mark,

I like how you think. When I was looking around, I saw the 2.9L "Nickies" sets, and thought I might as well up the 2.5 SS a bit. The cost is the same for the P/Cs.

I spoke with Ollies just a minute ago, a port and polish will run about $700, so if I buy some 2.7L heads (for $3-400) with the larger "s-spec" ports, I'd be money ahead. I wouldn't have to port the heads, and I could sell off the 2.2 heads and recoup some of my expenses. I'll have to look at Bruce's book and see if I can find a part # for the heads with the larger ports.

OK, so now I'm just a crank and set of rods short of a 2.9L. Am I missing something?

Thanks, Ron

[BURN-BROS]

Starting to sound like you should sell your 2.2 and buy a 2.7 core motor.

[Igofastr]

Just thinking, if I kept it at 2.5-2.7L, I could probably get away with with S-spec 35/35 ports, correct? If I went with the 2.4/2.7 crank (yielding 2.9L), those same ports proabably would breath well enough?

Ron

[Igofastr]

Originally Posted by BURN-BROS

Starting to sound like you should sell your 2.2 and buy a 2.7 core motor.

Possibly, anybody know what they run nowadays?

I expect that I'm buying new P/Cs no matter what (cost neutral). Likely a case ($3-400), possibly heads ($3-400).

I don't know what the cost differential between a 2.2T and a 2.7 is, but would it not be more than ~$800?

[BURN-BROS]

They should be little to no difference in price. You get a better case with the right spiggot size, crank ,rods,etc if you go the long stroke route. Try and avoid the thermal reactor engines if possible

[Igofastr]

So, is this what they call the "slippery slope?"

[Igofastr]

Originally Posted by BURN-BROS

They should be little to no difference in price. You get a better case with the right spiggot size, crank ,rods,etc if you go the long stroke route. Try and avoid the thermal reactor engines if possible

How would I avoid those....is there a part number I should be looking for? In the end, I'll go with carbs too...either way. Another cost neutral item.

Thanks for the thought. I'll have to start looking in that direction too. But at least buying part by part, I know what I'm getting. Easier to slip under the wife's radar, too

Ron

[BURN-BROS]

Look for years 74-75.

That's a good point about knowing what you are getting. Try and get one from somebody you know and trust.

[Igofastr]

Originally Posted by BURN-BROS

Look for years 74-75.

That's a good point about knowing what you are getting. Try and get one from somebody you know and trust.

Thanks. Ron

[356RS]

Ron, I just took apart a 73.5 engine. To bad for you, it has the early 92mm case cylinder bores which is great for long stroke 2.5 but not for the SS 2.5. it has the correct crank and rods, etc, etc your looking for and I also have a set of 75 911 S heads. Shouldn't be to hard to find a good 74 - 75 case.