Turn over engine by hand??

[levdeb]

Hey all-

I am just finishing up a redo of a 2.2 that sat for 14 years or so. Replaced just about everything you can, and was just about to put the engine tin back around it. I thought I would do a quick "wrench" turn over on it, and the thing won't budge!!

Now, I have only every worked on old VW 1500 and 1600's back when I was a teen. Shouldn't I be able to turn this over with a wrench on the end of the pulley?? I took out all 6 spark plugs, but nothing...

When I got the enging in June, I did a quick oil change, squirted fuel cleaner and carb cleaner in the zeniths, and it turned over (battery powered). I just cranked it for a few seconds to be sure the engine wasn't siezed...

SO, I know it DID turn over. Not that I've invested a few hundred bucks in to it, I am nervous!!

Finally, the question. Isn't it possible to turn a 2.2 Porsche engine over with a wrench???? What am I missing?

Thanks so much,
Bill

[Shoepop]

You should be able to turn engine even with plugs in. I would be inclined to recheck your cam timing. Will it turn counterclockwise?

[levdeb]

I didn't take the case apart. Just cleaned up everything (it had 14 years of dead mice under the shroud...)

I replaced the hydraulic tensioners with solid (I know, but I really wanted to do that). I didn't move the timing at all. And I even opened up the cam covers today to loosen the tensioners in case they were too tight... still nothing.

If I go counterclockwise, the pulley bolt just loosens....

[Shoepop]

Hummmmmmmm, ok remove the alternator/fan belt and try. I have seen one that wouldn't turn because a fan blade was touching the housing.

[levdeb]

Yep, tried that. I even have the pressure plate off the back side... No carbs on it. Nothing to keep it from moving!!!

[levdeb]

Thanks for even trying Shoepop!

[Shoepop]

Your very welcome, someone here will get it. If it were me next step would be remove valve covers and loosen all the rockers.

[911pcars]

Check all the easy-to-check stuff first. Are any bolts protruding into the flywheel or crank pulley preventing it from rotating? Did you fix the flywheel in place and forgot to remove the lock?

Yes, I would remove the cam box cover and take a look. Could be a timing chain bunched up somewhere and is up against a sprocket.

Cam timing could be way off too resulting in an open valve contacting a piston.

If all else fails, remove the chains from one cam sprocket, test, then the other. Since you didn't go inside the engine, that should be the last item preventing rotation.

Sherwood

[levdeb]

Thanks Sherwood. If I remove the chains, will I have to retime everything?? I carefully removed the hydraulic and inserted the solid so I would not have to mess with timing...

[911pcars]

Originally Posted by levdeb

Thanks Sherwood. If I remove the chains, will I have to retime everything?? I carefully removed the hydraulic and inserted the solid so I would not have to mess with timing...

If the engine still doesn't rotate with the timing system removed and every external possibility checked, it has to be something internal. I'm leaning on someting to do with the cam timing, as in "it's not timed correctly."

Sherwood

[levdeb]

Ok, I will tear it apart again in the morning. Really not looking forward to that... Lol

[Flat6pac]

sounds like dry walls on the cylinders, was there and did that in 1980
Bruce

[Aurel]

Before you tear it appart, remove the plugs, squirt oil in the cylinders. Then use a wrench on the fan pulley nut, turning clockwise and put pressure on the right side of the fan belt to prevent it from slipping. It should turn like that, but if it doesn`t, absolutely do not force and start taking chain covers appart for cam timing...Not timed correctly could be a valve hitting a cylinder. If the problem persists, you may have to take heads and cylinders off. Also, note that if it is a timing problem, it should rotate counter clockwise, backing the valve away from the cylinder. While it is not recommended to rotate the crank counter clockwise, this is an easy test that I would try...

[levdeb]

I never messed with the timing when redoing the engine. I will squirt more marvel mystery oil in the cylinders. Right now, it not budging at all. How do I rotate counterclockwise? The nut just loosens...!

Fan belt is off. Plugs are out. Clutch is off. Headache is on...

[Aurel]

Originally Posted by levdeb

I never messed with the timing when redoing the engine. I will squirt more marvel mystery oil in the cylinders. Right now, it not budging at all. How do I rotate counterclockwise? The nut just loosens...!

Fan belt is off. Plugs are out. Clutch is off. Headache is on...

Do you have a porsche pulley wrench? You could use it to rotate counter clockwise. But again, do it very slowly, just a few degrees for testing purposes. It will tell you for sure if you need to retime. Also, I assume you have the fan belt on, and have your wrench on the fan nut, not the crank pulley nut. You get a lot more torque from the fan pulley.

[levdeb]

Got it!!! Whew!!!

Took the solid tensioners off. Nothing. Pulled distributor. Nothing. Installed pressure plate and went counterclockwise for a few teeth. POP. The chain unbinds and a socket on the fan pulley turns the engine over and over and over. Timing looks like it's still right on. Guess when I pulled out the old tensioners, the chain got caught and needed to be backed off a bit.

Thank you to everyone. Amazing group of folks here. Just made my week!!!

[Shoepop]

Atta boy

[dtw]

Originally Posted by levdeb

Got it!!! Whew!!!

Took the solid tensioners off. Nothing. Pulled distributor. Nothing. Installed pressure plate and went counterclockwise for a few teeth. POP. The chain unbinds and a socket on the fan pulley turns the engine over and over and over. Timing looks like it's still right on. Guess when I pulled out the old tensioners, the chain got caught and needed to be backed off a bit.

Thank you to everyone. Amazing group of folks here. Just made my week!!!

At this point you should check your cam timing with a dial gauge.

Also - what's with the solid tensioners? Unless this is to be a race engine, it is really not a great call.

[levdeb]

90% of the guys I personally know driving 911's are using solid, including my father in law who's had them in his daily driver 1970 for over 32 years. I know they require more maintenance, but they will "never" fail like hydraulic ones do. I know it's like talking religion with such strong opinions either way. But I figure I will do what the guys who will be working on my car do. And my 911 will be a weekend driver anyway.