Hi SmileWavy It's taking shape but still not in yet - I was waiting for a couple of bits back from the paint shop & I dont think the muffler will fit without a slight modification.

I'm terrified to actually turn the key now & the amount of varying advice about run in procedures is pretty baffling but hopefully not too long to go!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1310152156.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1310152179.jpg

Getting closer - finishing one job always creates another three though!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1310238455.jpg

Hi Alex,

I am curious how you timed the cams and chains + crank + dist ?

Patrick

Hi Patrick,

There were three areas in rebuilding the engine that terrified me:

1. Sealing the case halves properly
2. Getting the timing right
3. Incorrectly torquing something or missing something.

When I took my heads to be machined along with some other parts for checking, I got a price for assembling the bottom end - which then escalated into me taking the lazy but safe option of getting the whole long block rebuilt for me by a professional.
I would have loved to do it myself but realistically it would have taken me forever and because of the risk and the figures involved, I took the decision to get it done.
By methodically disassembling the engine, cleaning measuring and checking each component part did save quite a lot on the rebuild cost and you learn a lot about it at the same time.

Sorry I can't be more help!

Are you looking at or in the process of rebuilding?

Not trying to thread jack here, but... I had the same cam profile cut, but will be running stock valves, and pistons. I was under the impression that I would not have any piston to valve clearance issues. Is this correct?


I would love to see more details (pics and measurements) about the engine tin and rear crossmember mods you did they look real clean.

Hi SmileWavy Trust me, as shown above I'm no expert but I think that you will be fine with the cam profile and the stock valves and pistons. The only reason that I had problems was because of the oversize inlet valves. It also didn't help that the engine had been rebuilt previously so it had even more material removed from the heads.

The rear crossmember was a very simple mod - it was bent on a press (as it's a 964 engine going into a 1985 chassis) then to strengthen it I had a couple of plates welded to the weakest area (where it is thinnest) and then powder coated satin black & it came out very well. I wasn't going to bother as most dont but when I bent it I realised just how weak the ends of the crossmember are and they do occasionally break here so for what is a simple, inexpensive mod, it's pretty worthwhile in my opinion.

As far as the tin goes, mine was pretty shot and replacement tin can be very expensive so I went for the fibreglass as it's lighter, cheaper and DOESN'T RUST!
Whether it all stays in one piece is to be seen but I like it. It was made by a local chap who took moulds from an old set of 964 tin and reproduced them in a very high quality weave of fibreglass. they're fairly flexible until it's all together then surprisingly rigid. As always there's some fettling for fit but something to think about if your tin is shot.

I've added a couple of pics below but if you want any specifics, let me know.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1310464802.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1310465185.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1310465210.jpg
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915 Gearbox clutch cable fixing lug broken
 

Well, now the engine is in place I thought I'd start hooking some bits up starting with the gear selector and clutch.

I assembled the clutch levers and hooked the cable in place when but when I started to tighten the cable in position the mounting lug snapped clean off. I would like to stress that I was just nipping it up not leaning on it or overtightening it at all.

I'm looking for any opinions on fixing this as I REALLY don't want to have to drop the engine again.

Do you think I would be able to JB weld the lug back in place and use an ally or steel plate across the whole area as a type of washer to spread the load instead of the stock washers?

Has anyone seen this happen before?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1310628812.jpg

Edit: Just been informed that it's a seperate bracket part # 915 116 613 01 and costs very little. My heart sank when I first did it and I had to walk away, should have looked properly!!

Cranks but won't start - Flywheel sensor?
 

Quick update - Engine cranks but won't start. I can't hear the fuel pump and there was no fuel to the bleed on the fuel rail so I tryed to jump the DME relay without success and also tryed my spare DME relay. When I try to jump the DME, all I get is a click from the engine bay???

Next step was to connect the positive terminal of the battery to fuse no.6 (fuel pump) and the pump happily whirred away so somehow I am not getting any signal to the fuel pump.

I have been advised that it could well be the flywheel / crank reference sensor giving the problem as this activates the DME relay but havent got a clue how to test this.

Does this sound like a likely reason and should I be checking anything else before I go and spend out on a new flywheel sensor?

Exhaust is on upside down by the way to clear the mounting bracket until my spacers arrive!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1312048599.jpg

HI Alex
have you still got the diagnostic socket fitted to the wiring loom? if so I will be near Silverstone to work on a 2.7RS on Sunday and if poss could call round with the diagnostic tester and plug it if for you, give me a ring 07885 622051

regards mike

Hi Mike, sorry we didn't get to catch up on Sunday but thanks for taking the time to point me in the right direction earlier :-)

I've got a couple of ideas to try and will report back.

Cheers

Alex

Vacuum lines
 

Quick update - Got the engine started and given it a bit of a run in. Also finished putting bumpers etc so car is getting there.

Pictures by ALEX-P76 - Photobucket

It's not ticking over very well and is very jittery at low rpm but seems fine when it gets to around 2750rpm and beyond. As well as this it is running very rich which leads me to believe that it could be a vacuum problem. I don't think there are any leaks but it is possible that a pipe is incorrect.

Vacuum lines are a real nightmare as they seem to change from early to late 964's, tiptronic, C2 or C4 so it's really confusing. I've been through PET and the workshop manual and have a diagram for a VRAM system but was wondering if anyone had a good diagram of some good photos or an early 964 engine's vacuum lines?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1313343525.jpg

I just recently took apart and cleaned my intake. Check out my photobucket.com page for some pics. This is from a 1992 C2 Convertible, tiptronic. Hope it helps.

911 pictures by NoEardGoat - Photobucket

Thanks for that NoEaredGoat SmileWavy

Gives me a good idea for some of the lines but my engine is the earlier 964 with the aluminium manifold so there are quite a few differences.

Good luck with your build BTW, one thing that I did read that made me wince was that you were not planning on replacing your headstuds - That was what got me into this whole mess in the first place!!

Which head studs did your motor have and how many miles? I think some of the early 964's came with Dilavar studs and the later (my motor) came with steel studs, which from what I have been told are good, but not as good as raceware, arp, or supertec studs.

I had dilavar studs in mine which had chipped paint and corrosion which led to failure. Couldn't say about miles but the engine had been rebuilt before.

I replaced them with the Supertec studs. It came down to a choice between 993 Turbo studs (fully threaded) or Supertec because the Raceware ones are silly money. Supertec ones fitted well, sensibly priced and came with good service so hopefully will do the job well.

Just caught up with this build congrats on your work so far. If the engine is hard to start and runs rich it can be caused by the cylinder head temp sensor (CHT is screwed into Left foreward head) being out of range. The DME uses a resistance through the CHT to adjust the A/F ratios to enrichen for cold start. If defective it can cause the DME to adjust full rich at start and still very rich when warm and running. There is a ohm vs temp scale somewhere in the manual

Hi John,

You might well be right. I had another look at it last night and it starts fine on a cold engine and idles nicely. As soon as you touch the throttle it splutters and when there is some heat in the engine it won't idle until the rpm is held a lot higher. There is fuel coming from the exhaust and a bit of dark smoke due to it being so overfuelled. The engine only runs properly at around 2750rpm, presumably when it has the ability to burn off the excessive fuel being dumped in it.

I know the ignition is fine and I've been through the vacuums and earths and I am pretty confident about them so I guess it could be alternator or ECU or most likely fuelling somewhere.

The CHT makes a lot of sense so that it where I will start but I may chuck the car up to my specialist to do the checks as I don't really have the diagnostic equipment. Ideally I would want to check fuel pressure, co2 emmissions, injectors etc etc.

One thing that I have been doing is disconnecting the battery at night. Someone suggested that sometimes thay need to run for 10 minutes or so as they can go into a panic mode when this is done but my money is still on fuelling somewhere.

I'll report back

Thanks

Part # 930-606-013-02-m13 ? CHT sensor is only about $90 and quite easy to replace .I have seen it fail more than once and the engine runs dead rich with hard starting especially when warm. I would replace it without even testing it with your symptoms.

I've spoken to my local specialist today and he said that they change that sensor as a matter of course whenever they do a rebuild. Wish I knew that earlier!!

One thing I forgot to ask him - What do you think would happen if I disconnected the sensor when the car is warm?

CHT sensor checks out
 

Hey John,

I took the CHT sensor off the car last night and checked it against the ohm v temp figures in the engine maintainance manual. Unfortunately it was all ok and the readings were spot on both at ambient and also when put next to a heat gun so the sensor itself is not the culprit. As these sensors cost around £100 over here, I can't find anything wrong with it and it's no big drama to fit/remove I'm going to put it back and check the ohm reading at ambient temp back at the connector onto the ECU on pins 30 and 45 as per manual to check the continuity between the sensor and the ECU.

I'm a bit dissappointed that this doesn't appear to be the problem as it made perfect sense and it would have been a nice easy fix!

Any other suggestions much appreciated.

Okay so CHT sensor checks ot fine and the signal at the ECU plug checks out fine.

Next step was to remove the MAF and I think this is where the problem may be - The flapper is sticking with about a 1/4" gap at the bottom and when you move the flapper it makes a sort of metal brushing on metal noise. It's pretty clean in there but I sprayed a bit of cleaner in there and a little dirt came out but not enough to stop it moving. If you gently move it past the sticking zone then it snaps shut.

So if I can't see anything physically stopping it from moving and it seems quite clean does anyone have any ideas what I should do to get it moving freely?

Please don't say replace it :D

The last photo shows it closed and the other two where it gets stuck.

Please can someone tell me how to remove the platic cover from the MAF? It looks like a sealed unit.


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I just cleaned mine and it snaps completely closed very quickly without any "cathching" or "rubbing" feeling. I bought some MAF cleaner and used that and an old toothbrush to scrub everywhere except on the sensor itself. I was surprised how well the MAF cleaning spray dissolved and cleaned the old oil and dirt, much better than brake cleaner (which is not approved for use on MAF sensors).

It seems to me there is something on Steve Wongs site about the construction of the air flow meter. The resistance tracks wear and can be moved on the shaft Perhaps that is the problem.

The air flow meter turned out to be the edge of the flapper that is not shown in the photos above catching when inside the AFM (if that makes sense) so it would not fully close so as soon as that was smoothed off it snaps shut freely and runs properly again.

Finally got round to making the exhaust for it. As many people have done before on here I bought a 14" Magnaflow silencer, a couple of flanges, 4 x 90 degree bends and a length of stainless pipe and set about measuring, cutting, grinding and got a friend to do the welding as it wouldn't have looked too pretty if I had done it!!

Few poor quality pics below but it has transformed the car and feels like it can breath properly now. I'm really happy with the sound and the price of the parts was a fraction of what an off the shelf equivalent would have been.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1322854350.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1322854369.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1322854390.jpg

Well done Alex!

Sorry, I posted a couple of replies back on Page1 in January, and didn't get back or acknowledge your reply, apologies.

Back in Jan I was in the "pre-emptive research phase" whilst I was hunting down my car. I'm now in a similar position with my 964T, although not driven by a breakage, I've pulled the engine to EFI it...and whilst I'm at it, teardown and rebuild the top and bottom ends....and upgrade...

Funnily enough, because the way this project is going, am also now considering titanium retainers...which ones did you go for in the end? (like you, I noticed the ones on offer from Pelican, but they're listed for use with high performance springs....I'm just swapping in some 964 n/a cams and replacing the springs with fresh stock items).

Cheers!
Spencer.

Hey Spencer, I had a good look around at the different springs & titanium retainers etc and in the end I bought them from Don at EBS although I did go for the race springs as well.

I didn't set out with the intention of replacing so many parts but when tearing the engine down the more I looked the more worn parts I found so took the opportunity to upgrade on some parts.

Hi Alex,

Yeah I've just been doing a bit more research this evening....thinking that because mine isn't N/A and therefore not revving as high, it won't be as prone to valve float...and it's a street engine, not intending to track, plus running "only" the stock 964 cams; by comparison to other N/A cam grinds, they're certainly not aggressive in terms of ramp speeds, so on that basis, will probably just replace with stock fare...I've already just bought a load of stuff that was well and truly out of (original) scope! Arggh!!

Off topic: as you're now running a 964 motor, you planning on going along to one of the 964 London Owners meets @ Guildford?

Cheers
S

Meant to ask Alex....that fibreglass replacement for the tinware...are you able to share (or PM) details please?

My L & R tins are "okay"...I spent a lot of time blasting them and got them powdercoated a few months ago, but you can see the pitting underneath.

The rear tin is absolutely shot, I've seen better metal on the Titanic.

Was wondering whether your man could/would do a set of Turbo items, from which I could then insulate the rear piece with heatproof matting to protect against the turbo, directly underneath it....I can't believe the cost of the replacement tin from Porsche, and of course it'll happen all over again.

Cheers
Spencer.

Hey Spencer,

I don't know anything about the 964 meets at Guildford but I work fairly close so could always blast over.

My tinwear was also in a fairly bad state, especially the side at tfront of the engine on cyl 1, 2, 3 side where the exhaust ran & it's silly money to replace.

The chap who made the fibreglass tinwear for me is based in the silverstone area and has always done the traditional stuff but may well be interested in doing something different (mine was his first 964). PM me the exact details of what you have and what you are after and I can always ask the question. Are the turbo ones much different at that end on the engine?

Cheers

Hi Alex, here ya go, the (46 page!) thread re the London 964 meets...

London 964 Owners

For the first time in ages, the last meet on the 4th didn't coincide with me having my daughter for the weekend....and I forgot to check in and have a look for the next date! Not that I have a drivable car to get there in anyway, lol!

Re the tinware, I went to see Richard Chamberlain last week re some head porting work; I'd heard a few days prior from somebody else, that most folk don't bother replacing the rear tinware; "it's a pain when you want to get to stuff, and expensive"....however, Richard was saying that for the intercooler to work, the top half of the engine bay MUST be enclosed...good rubber seals at the back, tinware in place around the sides and back and the I/C sealed as well as possible to the rear lid....interesting contrast in views!

I've just realised that I never really finished this thread off so:

Engine has now done coming up to 3500 miles & is running sweet. It wouldn't idle or run properly (running rich) up until I had it custom remapped at the tail end of last year and swapped to a MAF unit replacing the stock AFM. I tried a later AFM from a friends later model 964 but it still wouldn't idle. Whether the MAF made any increase in power I'll never know but the car now drives really well and is currently on a bit of a diet!

Couple of shots below of the engine, finished exhaust & dyno curve. The torque curve underneath is an estimation that someone kindly did for me as it wasn't available on the day.

Thanks for all your help & advice along the way.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335380269.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335380282.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1335380293.jpg

Great build. Post a video if you can, I'd love to hear the exhaust setup

I haven't really got any clips of it apart from a couple of it on the rollers:

MOV04625.mp4 video by ALEX-P76 - Photobucket

Sounds great! Congrats and enjoy

What kind of headers is this?

They are similar to the ones in the link below apart from the pipe diameter.

Porsche 911 Stainless Steel Exhaust Header 1 5 8" | eBay

They're pretty heavy, the fit isn't perfect and the stainless isn't the best quality but the price was right at the time. Sorry, I can't see any for 1.750" dia pipes.

Ok, I have seen the 1 5/8 on ebay before, but I think I want the bigger 1 3/4 that you have.

Do you know if the dimensions refer to the inner or outer diameter? Do you remember the inner diameter of yours?

Sorry, I never saw your question!

I expect it's way too late but the outside diameter is 2" so it must refer to the bore diameter. Hope you found some in the end.

Injector questions
 

I've read in another thread that stock 964 injectors max out at around 300bhp which got me thinking about the ones on my engine - The injectors themselves are in good shape as I had them cleaned & refurbed when I rebuilt the engine but if this is correct, with the engine putting out 308.2bhp they must be right on the edge of their performance envelope.

Could they even be limiting the engines performance?

I don't really know the difference between the various Porsche injectors but it looks like they change for every different model as shown in the part numbers below.

3.2 part # 930 606 120 00
944 part # 930 606 120 00
944 S & S2 # 944 606 112 01
944 Turbo # 951 606 110 00
964 part # 911 606 120 01
993 part # 993 606 120 00
VRAM part # 993 606 122 00

Is it possible to swap them for 944 turbo injectors as I have heard that these are capable of handling more bhp?

Is there an idiots guide to injectors?

Apologies if these are stupid questions or this has been covered elsewhere. I've had a search but it didn't really come up with much.

An injector flows a certain amount of fuel per time unit at some specified fuel pressure. The ECU "knows" this fuel flow number (cc/min, lbs/h...) och calculates how long to open the injector, this would be called duty cycle. You want to have an injector that won't have to small duty cycle at low rpm/load, that would be inaccurate. On the other hand you don't want an injector that is to small, max duty cycle should be kept under 90%.

If you just put in a larger injector you will throw the ECU off, because it has no idea that the parameters has changed. The ECU will try to correct itself based on the lambda sensor, but can only do this for a limited range 10-20% maybe (guessing) and lambda correction is bypassed on full throttle.

Basically if you want bigger fuel injectors you need to update the ECU with a new chip. Perhaps a slightly larger injector will work fine, but a proper rolling road dyno run and tuning is something you should do, money well spent!

By the 308.2 number I'm guessing you have had the engine on a dyno. If the injectors were limiting the performance it would be showing on the dyno with air-to-fuel ratio running lean somewere around max torque / max power.