3.0 With 2 Broken Studs....What's It Worth?
 

Got some bad news yesterday. I just spent a small fortune resealing the top end of my '81 SC's engine and replacing the air box with another new pop off box...

After being tuned and placed on the ground by my mechanic, he took it for a test drive. I originally brought the car in because it was down on power and I suspected a compression or air leak somewhere. Long story short, after more digging, he found that I have TWO broken head studs. For the record, I don't know the exact mileage of this engine because I bought the car with a broken odometer at 80k. I know the previous owner and the car sat for years with minimal use, so I suspect the engine has somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 -100k...

I have decided to go the safer (and cheaper) route and buy an engine from a friend of mine. That engine has less than 1k on a complete rebuild and is coming out of his personal car that was totalled earlier this month. I did have the opportunity to drive it before it was wrecked, and this engine is strong as a bull...having said that, I have decided to sell my complete & running 3.0 with two bad head studs.

Here is my question...what is something like this worth? I really don't have the time to part the damn thing and would much rather sell it whole, but before I place it on the market, I would like to get an idea of FAIR and PROPER value. It is still a running and driving engine, but is woefully down on power for obvious reasons!!!!;)

Any input is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance 911 brotheren!!!!

Cajun

Actually it is not, it is a rebuild waiting to happen... If you drive it like this it will only become more expensive to rebuild.

Dunno what a fair price is where you live, but you need to deduct the rebuild cost from it for starters...
You're gonna get lowballed everytime, potential buyers will always estimate rebuildcost higher than you... (they will take in account a safety margin. a rebuild wil cost more than just billable hours and two studs, they will add necessary upgrades, replace worn parts....)

Where is the engine at?
Bruce

Cajun,

Where are you located?

Best,
Grady

The car and I are both located in New Orleans.

I certainly understand your point Geronimo. Perhaps I should have been more clear in my explanation. What I meant by "running/driving" engine was that the engine can be cranked, heard, run, inspected, etc.. It is not an engine on a engine stand in the back of my garage or on a pallet in storage somewhere that cannot be heard running, and it is not "frozen" with some unknown internal issues. Although probably not the smartest thing in the world, the car is definitely capable of starting and driving around the block...

Again, I appreciate your comment and insight!SmileWavy

You can buy an 3.0 with no broken studs all day long for 3k.

Studs are $650 for Supertech plus labor.

So Id say its worth 1500 max.

Thanks

There's a 3.2 crank for sale @$1,850 that's stock if that tells you anything.

Please point me in the direction of the 3.0s "all day long" for 3k. I will pick up several of them. Are the ones you are referring to complete with documentation? Or are we talking about unknown time bombs that are currently running but no one knows for how long?

I'm not being snippy, I'm serious. I would love to find deals like that.

You should get $3K for it, as is. More, if you take the time to replace the head studs.

Does it come with the lambda system or is it euro?
Bruce

The car is a US version, so I *believe* it has the lambda system. I can check though and post back.

Spending a small fortune on "resealing" is not documentation. Unless you have proof of a top end rebuild... Id say your motor is undocumented if all you did is "reseal" it. You said mileage is unknown and you said it sat for years. You also said it is down on power due to compression leakage.. I wouldnt pay you 3k for it. I wouldnt pay you 2k for it. Perhaps Steve is correct... put it on ebay /craiglist/pelican classified and see what offers you get..
Yes, the 3k ones Ive seen are largely undocumented just like yours (See next post below)... many show up right here on Pelican on a regular basis... Most also dont have broken studs and dont run poorly.

If you can get 3k for it, that sounds like a good deal for you.
Just my .02

Examples...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/577795-fs-79-sc-3-0l-engine.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/534618-fs-3-0-911-sc-81-83-engine-complete-nyc.html

Here is one with a documented rebuild 10k miles ago for $3,500...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/460814-fs-3-0l-euro-motor-80-sc.html

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/448838-fs-3-0l-sc-engine.html

:) not based on the For Sale ads I look at here on Pelican. This is a mileage unknown, sat for a long time, low on power due to compression leakage engine. You are being generous.

Well, the car did see very infrequent use when my friend owned it. When I bought the car 6 months ago I had it serviced and put several thousand miles on it.

Either way I am replacinging it with a engine that was professionally rebuilt and documented less than 1k ago and I would like to sell this one. If someone lowballs the hell out of me on this engine, I know what to do with it. I just thought I would get some opinions off of this board before I made my final decision.

Thanks again.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but this sounds like some 'seller's bias.' Your engine is down on power, has some gaps in history, unknown maintenance history, unknown mileage and 2 known broken studs.

You asked for opinions so I'd say its worth $300 to $5,000. Depends on verifiable condition and whether you are willing to allow a buyer to disassemble for inspection. If those studs have been broken a while you may have damaged the cylinders or heads.

As a point of reference, I have a documented 2.7 rebuilt with RS cams and pistons without intake for sale for $6,000. You can opt for Webers, CIS, SSIs or Burch for additional cost...

I'm not being generous; thats what the individual parts are worth.

John,

I posted up on here because I wanted honest opinions from people presumably in the know. I don't think you are being a jerk. Hell, part of learning and growing in this hobby is knowing when and how to take the good news with the bad. I understand that what people on this board would pay versus what a less knowledgable person on Craigslist or Ebay would pay is certainly two different things.

I have to admit that your seller's bias comment made me smile. I have posted honestly and truthfully because I wanted honest and truthful opinions from other members. I never expected this to be a 3k+ engine as it sits. However, as is the case with most of us who eventually end up in my situation, there are multiple options...and I am still weighing mine. Should I part it? Sell it whole? At what price should I decide just to put it on a stand, cover it, and fool with it later because I don't want to get raped by lowballers?

$300 - 5k depending on verifiable condition? That's quite a spread. What's it worth with you being where you are and the engine being in New Orleans?

Seems like the highest value will be if parted. The reason for this is that people looking for complete engines are probably looking for ones that do not have major issues like broken studs... people looking for individual parts are probably willing to pay a premium for the individual parts. Lindy's post about the crank is a good example. There are several posts for cranks on here for well above 1000. Add that to the case (with studs removed), rods, oil pump, oil cooler, tin, shroud, and youll easily hit 3k.

3.2 crank is not the same as a 3.0 crank. 3.2 rod bolts tend to do the murder suicide thing on 3.2 cranks. Good 3.0 cranks are common by comparison.

set of heads, $600 +/-
case $1200 +/-
crank $1200 +/-
etc, etc, etc.
it's worth the sum of it's parts.

Virtually every Porsche, the sum of the parts exceeds the value of the whole.. The smaller you part it the more you receive.
Bruce

Cajun:

First and foremost, I am sorry to hear of this problem with your engine, especially the 3.0L engine. They are very good engines.

What is a surprise to me, and I AM NO EXPERT, is that your mechanic did not notice the two (2) broken head studs prior to the engine being resealed?? Why is this? If the case was split to reseal the engine, it would have been very obvious to an experienced Porsche engine builder that there were head studs needing attention. You cannot miss something like this fact. However, now that I have said this, it also depends on how much of the engine was resealed in the first place.

In this case, there is a big difference between the words, rebuild and resealed.

Steve, Grady and Henry is there a difference in reseal? Is there a top-end reseal versus an entire engine reseal? Shouldn't the work be labeled as such so as not to confuse or distort the actual work and cost of the procedure? Or, is a reseal just pertinent seals on the top-end of the engine without splitting the case and doing say the oil pump, crankshaft seal and flywheel seal which would require splitting the case (oil pump)?

Speaking only for myself, I consider a reseal job as addressing all the visible oil leaks.

Now, some areas require more disassembly than others (3.6 case through-bolt O-rings) so a lot depends on how much money a person is willing to spend to address everything. Normally, we replace all the gaskets, seals, and O-rings that are accessible during the normal course of the job such as a top end rebuild. Crank & flywheel seals can be changed without splitting the case, however any leaks at the #8 crank seal require full disassembly.