Stock 80US 3.0 Sc and 6 Grand Budget

[ARCSinAK]

Greeting Gentleman and Happy New Year,

I sure appreciate the wealth of knowledge and years/$ invested in the science of building high performance porsche engines that is freely given in this forum. Here my concept, your are given 6 K to take a 115K stock sc engine and work your magic, what would you do.....this number is tempered by the fact that I have 35 year veteran porsche shop owner/mechanic that comes to Hawaii on vacation once a year and loves to work on classic 911's.
My father owned a 911 after Vietnam and I never real knew him but I remember he had a 911, I always wanted one, at 41 found a US 80SC in great shape with a binder full of records for 11K. After driving a stock Euro 87 SC with 225HP+ I was ruined. Been a speed junkie for many years, dont have a unlimited budget, work public service as a fireman, but have read this forum for many years and wanted to present this concept kind of like one of those ridiculous challenges on reality TV.......The goal is to produce a street motor with a long static powerband not missing the low end.

Currently running SSI
Induction?
Pistons?
ECT.

Regards-
Jed

[lindy 911]

Do you have to deal with emissions there?

[lindy 911]

JE 9.5:1 pistons with valve pockets $1,000
Cams GE40 or sim $750
Used 40 Webers from this forum $1,500
MSD CDI & Coil $350
Refresh crank, rods & rockers $700
Gasket set, bearings & Miscl. $1,500
You turn the wrenches $0

230+HP and a ton of torque

This list assumes you have Mahle barrels within spec.

The combination possibilities are endless.

[Raceboy]

Originally Posted by lindy 911

Used 40 Webers from this forum $1,500
MSD CDI & Coil $350

VEMS ECU+connectors+wiring harness+EFI sensors+DI coilpack $~1400. Add injectors and fuel rails ~300-400 and you have 230+hp and lots of torque+great driveability and fuel economy. EFI is a step forward from CIS, carbs are step back.

Originally Posted by lindy 911

You turn the wrenches $0

Just my €0.02

[lindy 911]

I'm afraid 45+hp with a simple swap of injector and timing control won't happen. There must be an increase in fuel / air flow through the induction system to make it happen. I hear how carbs are a step back form EFI or CIS for that matter. I respectfully disagree. While it is true that control over the ENTIRE rpm range is better controlled by EFI, cruising speed and wide open throttle are just as effectively controlled with a triple throat carburetor. As far as mileage goes, I get about 19 mpg with my engine using 46 Webers. I know; some claim 25 with certain EFI set-ups but at what expense?

The means of induction with the proposed EFI hodge-podge listed above remains the same as CIS; needless to say the CIS is the primary problem with making horsepower because of it's limited flow through the barn-door air meter. Webers offer individual intakes for each cylinder and tuning for each. The throttle response with carbs is in a different universe compared to common plenum EFI set-ups.

The only way to make more power with the same displacement is to turn more rpm and increase efficiency; compression, valve lift and duration, and less restriction on both the intake and exhaust sides.

[bh912e]

"JE 9.5:1 pistons with valve pockets $1,000
Cams GE40 or sim $750
Used 40 Webers from this forum $1,500
MSD CDI & Coil $350
Refresh crank, rods & rockers $700
Gasket set, bearings & Miscl. $1,500
You turn the wrenches $0

230+HP and a ton of torque

This list assumes you have Mahle barrels within spec." (Lindy 911)

I Agree with above, add megasquirt and be able to program your own timing curve. Drivability and power......

[Evan Fullerton]

An '80 motor should have the small port heads so add whatever Rothsport charges to open up the intakes to '78-'79/euro spec with their CNC program.

[Raceboy]

Originally Posted by lindy 911

The means of induction with the proposed EFI hodge-podge listed above remains the same as CIS; needless to say the CIS is the primary problem with making horsepower because of it's limited flow through the barn-door air meter. Webers offer individual intakes for each cylinder and tuning for each. The throttle response with carbs is in a different universe compared to common plenum EFI set-ups.

No.

Using standalone EFI (and not old Motronic) allows to remove barn door AFM and no need for MAF either.
Throttle response with EFI is in the other world compared to CIS because the latter doesn't have any sort of reasonable acceleration enrichment short of the same slow responding barn door (plate to be more specific) and control pressure change which is slow as a snail.

You cannot change acc enrichment characteristics in the same detail on carbs that you can with efi. I have built many cars with both single plenum efi and ITB's. My race-car has turbocharged EFI motor with ITB's and dual-plenum as well. I fabricated this myself and I know exactly what is the difference in throttle response between well-tuned single-plenum EFI (that I previously had) and ITB efi. It is better but not too much. On turbocharged car it helps a lot with building boost between gearchanges.
And I converted my race-car to EFI from the very same dreaded CIS, it was the biggest difference ever felt.
With todays prices, availability and know-how, I wouldn't even consider anything other than EFI unless doing a resto work, class rules requirements or period correctness by any means.
Besides, I have posted this before, on 964 (that has EFI from the factory already) a change to standalone and tuning it properly gives 18 rwKW (that's 25 rwhp) and that is with already powerful engine. Plus the power curve is much smoother compared to stock DME.

[ARCSinAK]

Im liking the discourse.