Another Piston Squirter Question - 3.0 SC case

[mikedsilva]

A couple of questions about squirter replacement...


First - how deep is the recess in the case for the squirter? Is there a step at the botton for the new squirter to sit on? Or is it possible to push the new one in too far?


Porsche sell an oversized version.. and a standard version.
When I pulled mine out, they measured pretty much the 'standard' size. They were not terrible deformed as I did dremel out the little stakes that held them in. Should I simply use the std size replacement squirter or am I supposed to use an oversize so that it is a tight fit?


I just installed a set using 620 to retain (as well as staking). On the first one, I did not use a lot of the 620, and when testing them, I can see that it does ooze a little oil around the body of the squirter.

Not sure if this is acceptable, or whether i should pull it and replace and use more retaining compound.

Another question: for those that have replaced, how tight is the new std squirter when installing? I found they go in fairly easily.. very light taps... then as it gets flush with the case, it got very "loose". I was worried it could be pushed in too far (I didnt think to see how deep the holes were or if there was a step at this time hence my first question).

[Dpmulvan]

I would replace the one with oil seepage. Don’t remember if there’s a recess I don’t think so.
The case through bolts keep the squirters from coming out if they’re loose which they shouldn’t be.
They should be tight enough so you have to tap them in. Don’t be afraid to use too much 620 it’s easily melted with torch.

[boyt911sc]

Mike,

Did you test each oil piston squirter before installation? I tested them before installation and after installation just for comparison. To play safe, test them individually before putting the case halves together. I had one squirter flew out during the test and was not able to retrieve it in my work place. Use fluid or liquid to do the pressure tests.

Tony

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Mike,

Did you test each oil piston squirter before installation? I tested them before installation and after installation just for comparison. To play safe, test them individually before putting the case halves together. I had one squirter flew out during the test and was not able to retrieve it in my work place. Use fluid or liquid to do the pressure tests.

Tony

Hi Tony
i've tested them and they all flow... fine spray mist.... just not sure if the leaky one is warranting replacement.... your thoughts?

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by mikedsilva

Hi Tony
i've tested them and they all flow... fine spray mist.... just not sure if the leaky one is warranting replacement.... your thoughts?

Mike,

Using a fluid or liquid instead of air for the pressure test gives you a better perspective of the spray pattern. What I did was test them first for cracking pressure before installation. If you are using a sealant or adhesive aside from staking is a good option. They produce more consistent oil pressure reading.

Just make sure the oil squirter/s stay in place after you performed the high pressure test. I applied 100 psi. to test the oil squirters multiple times using air and liquid separately.

The leaky oil squirter might have a different spray characteristic than the non-leakers but not necessarily to be rejected. Without knowing the actual performance of the oil squirters during tests, I could not make a good judgement. It is a judgement call.

Tony

['78 SC]

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

...
The case through bolts keep the squirters from coming out if they’re loose which they shouldn’t be.
...

How can the through-bolts retain the squirters?

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Mike,

Using a fluid or liquid instead of air for the pressure test gives you a better perspective of the spray pattern. What I did was test them first for cracking pressure before installation. If you are using a sealant or adhesive aside from staking is a good option. They produce more consistent oil pressure reading.

Just make sure the oil squirter/s stay in place after you performed the high pressure test. I applied 100 psi. to test the oil squirters multiple times using air and liquid separately.

The leaky oil squirter might have a different spray characteristic than the non-leakers but not necessarily to be rejected. Without knowing the actual performance of the oil squirters during tests, I could not make a good judgement. It is a judgement call.

Tony

hi Tony
fair point.
I'll try to re-test and video the patterns... but from what you're saying, if the patterns are much the same, then the leak is of no real consequence?

[mikedsilva]

Here is a video...
the first squirter in the vid, is the suspect installation... cylinder 4.
The first spray looks good.. I come back and do it again at the end, and you can see some residual oil leak out around the body and run down the case....

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by '78 SC

How can the through-bolts retain the squirters?

They don't... the squirters don't actually go anywhere near the through bolts. They are in a blind hole... at a bit of an angle so that point to the centre of the underside of the piston.

I ended up pulling the squirter and replacing it. My curiosity got the better of me. It allowed me to see that the blind hole for the squirter is approx 48mm deep.. and that there is a 'ledge' approx 24mm down that stops the squirter going any further.

The squirter's chamber is fed by a 'tunnel' that connects the through bolt passage to the squirter chamber.

I'll let my retaining compound set up completely before testing with fluid again to see if it leaks.

[Dpmulvan]

Originally Posted by '78 SC

How can the through-bolts retain the squirters?

They can’t, brain cramp was referring to oil through sorry guys

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by mikedsilva

hi Tony
fair point.
I'll try to re-test and video the patterns... but from what you're saying, if the patterns are much the same, then the leak is of no real consequence?

Mike,

If the piston oil squirters are spraying well, I would be contended. I would be more concern about the piston oil squirter/s popping out than anything else. Just imagine if one or two of the squirters flew out during operation of the motor. After several tests using high pressure, gave me more confident that the oil squirters could withstand the 5 bar oil pressure. I was getting the less than 2.7 bars for the cracking pressures.

Tony

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by boyt911sc

Mike,

If the spoil squirters are spraying well, I would be contended. I would be more concern about the piston oil squirter/s popping out than anything else. Just imagine if one or two of the squirters flew out during operation of the motor. After several tests using high pressure, gave me more confident that the oil squirters could withstand the 5 bar oil pressure. I was getting the less than 2.7 bars for the cracking pressures.

Tony

I replaced the squirter; probably unneccessary but it was weighing on my mind. The new one fitted exactly the same as the last one, restaked and used a decent amount of retaining compound (applied to the body of the squirter, not inside the case)..
This one does not leak and with a decent amount of psi (120) it does not fly across the room!

Now onto the next "opportunity".... the cylinders I had bored out to 98mm and re-plated, were incorrectly rubbed flat on the sealing surface which removed the factory taper. Also, I have 1 that is considerably shorter, one that is taller, and 4 that are all the same!

[Oregon 911]

Hello everyone thanks for the information about the oil squirter‘s. I’ve checked mine but I think I need to check them again I may have one that doesn’t spray well it just dribbles but the first thing is nobody has explained in detail how do you remove a bad oil squirter,? what do you use to tap in the new oil squirter and what kind of sealing compound and where do you put it to seal the oil squirter’s back in place
Thank you Marion Fisk

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by Oregon 911

Hello everyone thanks for the information about the oil squirter‘s. I’ve checked mine but I think I need to check them again I may have one that doesn’t spray well it just dribbles but the first thing is nobody has explained in detail how do you remove a bad oil squirter,? what do you use to tap in the new oil squirter and what kind of sealing compound and where do you put it to seal the oil squirter’s back in place
Thank you Marion Fisk

There are quite a few threads on here where people how how to remove them. Here is one example.
3.2 Oil squirter replacement - screw method

['78 SC]

Originally Posted by Oregon 911

Hello everyone thanks for the information about the oil squirter‘s. I’ve checked mine but I think I need to check them again I may have one that doesn’t spray well it just dribbles but the first thing is nobody has explained in detail how do you remove a bad oil squirter,? what do you use to tap in the new oil squirter and what kind of sealing compound and where do you put it to seal the oil squirter’s back in place
Thank you Marion Fisk

Have you tried cleaning it? There's not much to these squirters; the internals are just a ball to block the inlet and a spring to apply light closing force. If it's dribbling instead of spraying, there is possibly some gunk inside that prevents the ball from moving freely. If you can force some solvent through the squirter to dissolve the blockage it might free up. I've done this by squirting some brake cleaner into the oil supply side and pressurizing it the same way you do to test the squirter. Beware the spray of brake fluid that may occur, dress accordingly.

I've freed up squirters this way when I knew the engine's history, but when I had questions about the history of a case I bought, I went the replacement route.

You may need to run solvent through a few times to get the squirter unstuck. Let it soak a while between attempts. There are a lot of threads here about freeing up stuck squirters, do a search for hints and tips.

Good luck

[PeteKz]

Put me in the camp of "Clean it in situ." Unless it's jammed or the squirt goes off in some direction and cleaning doesn't fix it, why would you potentially introduce more problems by drilling out the old one if it works?

[Oregon 911]

Hey guys thanks for the replies about cleaning or removing the oil squirter‘s.
Yes I’ve used brake cleaner and use compressed air and plugging the bottom side of the through bolt holes. After reading the part about how to remove those I’m not sure if I want to attempt that myself I think I’ll go back in try cleaning again with brake cleaner and compressed air and then try putting some oil through there with compressed air to test a squirter‘s hopefully cleaning a few more times will improve the spray thanks for all the advice. Marion

[Oregon 911]

Hey guys thanks for the replies about cleaning or removing the oil squirter‘s.
Yes I’ve used brake cleaner and use compressed air and plugging the bottom side of the through bolt holes. After reading the part about how to remove those I’m not sure if I want to attempt that myself I think I’ll go back in try cleaning again with brake cleaner and compressed air and then try putting some oil through there with compressed air to test a squirter‘s hopefully cleaning a few more times will improve the spray thanks for all the advice.

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by Oregon 911

Hey guys thanks for the replies about cleaning or removing the oil squirter‘s.
Yes I’ve used brake cleaner and use compressed air and plugging the bottom side of the through bolt holes. After reading the part about how to remove those I’m not sure if I want to attempt that myself I think I’ll go back in try cleaning again with brake cleaner and compressed air and then try putting some oil through there with compressed air to test a squirter‘s hopefully cleaning a few more times will improve the spray thanks for all the advice.

Use a stiff piece of thin piano wire.. or a thick strong dressmakers pin.. insert through from the piston side and try to agitate and dislodge the ball. I've successfully done this. Once you eventually dislodge it, instead of using brake cleaner to blow through, use something like pb blaster or wd40.. something that will leave an oily residue and make it far less likely for the steel ball (i assume its steel) to get lodged into the body of the aluminium squirter.