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Oil thermostat photos

engine oil thermostat test photos



So the Thermostat has a tapered bottom which mates up to the taper in the "well" it sits in. This "well" is connected to the high pressure gallery on the outlet from the pressure pump.

When the thermostat is "closed" or cold, all the oil goes out the UPPER port in the photo, this goes from there to the vertical passage with the relief valve at the bottom and the pressure sender at the top, then to the main bearing gallery.

When it is "open" or hot the UPPER port closes off and the LOWER port opens. Oil flows in the bottom of the thermostat and out the oil cooler passage, through the cooler, and then returns to the main bearing gallery.



Later type, with replaceable cartridge, thanks Kevin:


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Last edited by 304065; 11-01-2012 at 11:26 AM..
Old 11-01-2012, 10:37 AM
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A few shots of the 964 oil pressure/temperature console. The 3,6 cases must not have the slot cut for the "cold side-- there is probably a single drilling from the "thermostat" well (into which this assembly fits) over to the outlet for the pressure-side oil filter, then another single passage from the filter back to the bearing gallery. Can anyone with a 3,6 case confirm this is so?





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Last edited by 304065; 11-01-2012 at 10:56 AM..
Old 11-01-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 304065 View Post
The 3,6 cases must not have the slot cut for the "cold side-- there is probably a single drilling from the "thermostat" well (into which this assembly fits) over to the outlet for the pressure-side oil filter, then another single passage from the filter back to the bearing gallery. Can anyone with a 3,6 case confirm this is so?
I was wondering the same thing when formulating a reply to my engine bearing failure thread earlier today

Note that the t-stats you show above are different from the later style. The later style has a pressed-on cap on the bottom. You can patiently pry the cap off (its crimped on) and remove the t-stat regulator & replace if need be. Incidentall this regulator unit is the same as that found in the external t-stat for the 74-89 front oil cooler circuit.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:11 AM
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1) The earliest thermostats have a screw fitting sticking out their top. This can be used to set their opening temperature, I believe. I've got a couple of those, but have never used them. This does not seem to be a particularly important feature.

2) There ought to be a way to get the cartridge out of the earliest and early assemblies. After all, somehow they were put in there. But I don't know how.
Old 11-01-2012, 02:41 PM
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Walt, my '66 has the screw, actually a screw covered in plastic. I'll fiddle with this to see what it does. Also, the early thermostats have flats on the top, probably so Behr could get an open-end wrench on to screw them together. That is the only explanation, as the spring and wax element have to get inside the machined aluminum housing somehow. See Post #13 in this thread, supra.
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Last edited by 304065; 11-01-2012 at 06:15 PM..
Old 11-01-2012, 06:09 PM
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Here is a picture of the valve packages for the different engines discussed here.

The Safety valve on left is same for all.

The GT3 pressure relief is quite different than air cooled and note the 964/993 pressure relief has an additional spacer shown at the arrow that is not in the original 930 version.



EDIT by 304065: Posted elsewhere here, also by Cupcar:

Quote:
On thing of interest on the GT3 engine is the oil pressure relief valve parts package is very different than we are used to. The retention plug has a 36 mm deep recess in it and the spring is different with a different spindle within the spring. The safety valve parts package is the same as usual.

I think this set of parts along with a big pump regulates the oil pressure at 90 PSI over a broad range and that may help. This is speculation on my part.
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Old 11-04-2012, 02:35 PM
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Was looking at a 3.6 customization thread I had subscribed to and noticed some answers to questions that were posted here on this thread regarding how the later 3.6 engines are routing the oil thru the t-stat housing (which has no t-stat).

Take a look at post number 1 by Bill. He describes what he did to install a pre-3.6 engine oil cooler onto the 3.6 case

3.6 with ITBs & MS3X into G50 Carrera – the story so far

What this means is that the t-stat housing in a 3.6 case is machined for the "hot side" only, unless a filter console is installed and then the additional drilling is there to allow oil in and out of the filter?
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:17 PM
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Thinking about this, it appears that Porsche lowered the spring rate on the GT3 relief valve but maintained the opening preload pressure with slightly more linear spring compression.

This would make the valve pop open at the same pressure, but open quicker to full opening.

So, I wonder if the GT3 plan is to reduce the flow resistance of the bypass valve and thereby reduce pumping pressure losses of the bypassed oil and make a bit of horsepower.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:59 AM
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So, for a 3.2L (will be built to 3.5 L), I'm I correct with the long 86 mm spring for pressure relief with the spring guide and the shorter 70 mm for the safety release w/o spring guide, or should I use same set up for both?
The short 70 mm spring is superseded on Pelican with the longer spring part number, this is what has me a bit confused. Thanks.
Old 12-08-2012, 05:52 PM
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Follow the PET-- short horizontal long vertical
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:11 PM
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The short horizontal, which was used on the first 911 in 1966 or so, is still used on the GT3 engine case to this day (which means the 911 Turbos, GT3s, and all the factory race cars), as these still use the two piece case, which more or less follows the 1930s VW design of clamping the crank between two case halves with a vertical join at the crank centerline, and through bolts and perimeter bolts holding the crank in place and the case together.
Old 12-09-2012, 11:55 AM
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If there is confusion here, it might be because originaly both springs were the same, so had the same part number. The horizontal still does have the same part number (which is why I can make a statement like I did), but the vertical has changed, and thus the part number for it has been superceded, twice it appears thanks to Cupcar's contribution.

If you look at a parts book diagram for a 3.2 (or a 3.0, or late 2.7, for that matter), and find the diagram number for the springs, you will see that one leads you to one part number, and the other to the other part number. I suppose if you just looked up the part number for the short spring, you might find a note on supercession?

But if the diagrams are off, well even Porsche isn't perfect. There are (gasp) typos or other mistakes from time to time in their documentation. Which can most easily happen if parts books for many years of a model are compressed into one, and only the earliest diagram is used.
Old 12-09-2012, 12:06 PM
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the best tool i've made to get a stuck valve out is a cut off fat rat-tail file. they're tapered, so cut it off so the end so it just enters the end of the piston. tap it in LIGHTLY. the spiral cut of the file gets a grip and you can carefully get the piston rotating and out.
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Old 12-09-2012, 01:38 PM
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does anyone know at what pressure the SAFTEY valve opens? I'm have high oil pressure in my 993tt engined hot rod. 6~7 bar cold at idle (verified with independent gauge), 3 bar at idle when warm, and I'm assuming more than 5 bar cruising or higher rpm. Checked the pressure relief valve to see if its stuck, it fell right out so no issue there, I was hoping that was the problem seems like it would have been an easy fix! Have not checked the safety valve yet, not sure what I'd do if it turns out it is stuck.

Thanks
Ken
Old 01-09-2013, 05:21 AM
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A very interesting series of posts. A lot of information. I have made this oil-bypass modification in the past on 2.7 cars, and updated to the later pump. My question today is whether it is worth making this modification on an early 2.0 aluminum case motor? Never had any oiling problems with this motor in the past, but at a point where I could easily make the mod before re-assembly. I probably would not want to change the oil pump to a newer style. Any recommendations pro or con?
Thanks,
DG
Old 01-09-2013, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kojo911 View Post
does anyone know at what pressure the SAFTEY valve opens? I'm have high oil pressure in my 993tt engined hot rod. 6~7 bar cold at idle (verified with independent gauge), 3 bar at idle when warm, and I'm assuming more than 5 bar cruising or higher rpm. Checked the pressure relief valve to see if its stuck, it fell right out so no issue there, I was hoping that was the problem seems like it would have been an easy fix! Have not checked the safety valve yet, not sure what I'd do if it turns out it is stuck.

Thanks
Ken
Ken,

The factory Porsche service manual for the 993 says the SAFETY valve opens at 9 bar (130 psi) and the pressure relief valve opens at 5.3 bar (77 psi). Should be easy to check the safety valve. It's the horizontal one right next to the scavenge discharge exiting the engine case.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daves911L View Post
A very interesting series of posts. A lot of information. I have made this oil-bypass modification in the past on 2.7 cars, and updated to the later pump. My question today is whether it is worth making this modification on an early 2.0 aluminum case motor? Never had any oiling problems with this motor in the past, but at a point where I could easily make the mod before re-assembly. I probably would not want to change the oil pump to a newer style. Any recommendations pro or con?
Thanks,
DG
IMHO with a lot of emphasis on the Opinion part here.

It is better to have the bypass no matter what oil pump one uses.

Why have oil bypassed into the case just to be sloshed around and then pumped back to the oil tank by the scavenge pump for nothing.
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Old 01-09-2013, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daves911L View Post
A very interesting series of posts. A lot of information. I have made this oil-bypass modification in the past on 2.7 cars, and updated to the later pump. My question today is whether it is worth making this modification on an early 2.0 aluminum case motor? Never had any oiling problems with this motor in the past, but at a point where I could easily make the mod before re-assembly. I probably would not want to change the oil pump to a newer style. Any recommendations pro or con?
Thanks,
DG
Dave,

The intention of the oil bypass mod is to reduce the amount of oil that has to be scavenged by the oil pump. What the oil bypass mod does is reduce the amount of oil dumped into the engine sump, by way of plugging the discharge hole in the case and replacing the holey piston with solid, and the other alteration is the drilling of the case bore to intersect the pressure side of the pump.

So instead of the excess oil being dumped back into the sump, which can cause windage losses, it is re-routed back to the pressure (inlet) side of the pump. Doing this modification allowed the oil pump scavenge side to be reduced in size and in turn increased the pressure side of the pump.

Any 2.0L that is put to hard use would certainly benefit from the oil bypass mod. A 2.0L engine would also be well-served by having the piston squirters installed in the case mains. Especially if the original biral cylinders are replaced with Nikasil. The piston-cylinder clearance for the Nikasil stuff is relying on the cooling provided by those squirters, according to Anderson's 911 Performance book.
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Last edited by KTL; 01-09-2013 at 08:10 AM..
Old 01-09-2013, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kojo911 View Post
does anyone know at what pressure the SAFTEY valve opens? I'm have high oil pressure in my 993tt engined hot rod. 6~7 bar cold at idle (verified with independent gauge), 3 bar at idle when warm, and I'm assuming more than 5 bar cruising or higher rpm. Checked the pressure relief valve to see if its stuck, it fell right out so no issue there, I was hoping that was the problem seems like it would have been an easy fix! Have not checked the safety valve yet, not sure what I'd do if it turns out it is stuck.

Thanks
Ken
The answer is in the .jpg in the first post of this string, on line 4 = 113.7 psi.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:07 AM
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Kevin,
Thanks for your response. It is going back together as a bone-stock '68 911L, with NOS Mahle biral cylinders and pistons. It has already lead a long and fruitful life (250K miles), and I hope in its second incarnation will make it another 250K (enough to last the rest of my lifetime). It will not be put to "hard" use, but only what I would consider normal for a 911. I enjoy rowing a 901 box, and it will never be lugged, but it falls off the cams a bit before the redline so no point in taking it all the way there either. With that in mind, and NOT changing to the later pump with re-proportioned pressure/scavenge housings, is it a beneficial mod?
DG

Old 01-09-2013, 08:24 AM
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