Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 Engine Rebuilding Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 32
Opinions wanted: what was causing the oil-burning?

My friend recently restored a 1973.5 2.4L 911T with CIS injection and had the motor professionally rebuilt by a Porsche shop that does mainly racing motors. After 750 miles, the motor was still blowing lots of blue smoke, with no sign it was getting better with mileage. Before rebuild, his motor was relatively low mileage and the pistons and cylinders were well within specs. The shop mainly works on later motors with Nicasil cylinders (that don't get honed before new piston rings), so they did not hone the iron cylinders before reassembly with new rings. A leak-down test showed good values, very even and low.

We thought the rings were failing to properly seat because the cylinders were not honed. After only 750 miles, I helped him disassemble the motor to solve the oil burning. See the photos below. No spark plug or cylinder showed more oiliness than others. Note the even carbon pattern in all the cylinders -- very uniform across all cylinders. Piston tops were still clean.

However, we found one assembly error: one of the oil scraper rings was caught behind the expander ring. But this cylinder (#6) did not show any more carbon or oil on the plug than the others.

Some of the ring gaps were aligned, instead of opposite sides of the piston.

There is noticeable carbon build-up on the valves, especially on the exhausts.

The cylinders walls are shiny but still show some of the deeper cross-hatch scratches from the original honing.

Questions:
1. What does the carbon pattern in the cylinder heads show? Normal for only 750 miles? Does it indicate oil coming from the valve guides, or from the fuel spray as it enters the cylinders?

2. How much did the mis-assembled oil scraper ring contribute to the oil-burning?

3. How much did the un-honed cylinders contribute to the oil consumption?

Let the opinions flow!

Mis-assembled oil scraper ring on #6:


Cylinder #6:


Cylinders 4 - 6:


Cylinders 1 - 3:

Old 01-12-2014, 09:44 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Nash County, NC.
Posts: 8,467
One problem is Deves rings.
the rings will line the way they want to run regardless as to how they are aligned on build.
Bruce
Old 01-12-2014, 10:09 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
banalytic
 
panama911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Berlin, Germany
Posts: 76
Not sure if it's related to your problem - but where did you/they source the piston rings?

I'm asking because the second ring is 1,75mm on the 2.4 CIS, different from all other 84mm engines (1,5mm or 2mm), and no longer available from Porsche as far as I know?
Old 01-12-2014, 11:04 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 32
The rings were aftermarket Deves rings…

I think my friend has sourced a set of Porsche rings for the rebuild.

I'm surprised at how much the rings rotate when run.

Bruce, are you saying that even that oil scraper ring on #6 could have become caught because of ring rotation when running?
Old 01-13-2014, 06:17 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Straight shooter
 
Lapkritis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Vilnius
Posts: 3,088
Garage
New rings but no fresh hone... certainly will contribute significantly to sealing and oil consumption. A quick ball hone would be perfect.

Do you have ring gap specs from the assembly?
__________________
“Of the value traps, the most widespread and pernicious is value rigidity. This is an inability to revalue what one sees because of commitment to previous values. In motorcycle maintenance, you MUST rediscover what you do as you go. Rigid values makes this impossible.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
Old 01-13-2014, 08:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Nash County, NC.
Posts: 8,467
No, but the rings do rotate in a running engine.
Oil control ring is probably from an installation problem that moved when the cylinder was installed and wasnt seen.
Bruce
Old 01-13-2014, 08:49 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Stuttgart & Miami
Posts: 611
Also check the valve seals, and valve to guide clearances.

Old 01-23-2014, 06:42 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Reply


 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 08:13 PM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.