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-   -   3.2l rebuild, the quest for more power (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/819269-3-2l-rebuild-quest-more-power.html)

michael lang 05-18-2015 11:17 PM

I did it. I'm so relieved I got past that hurdle for me. After I took the sprockets off of the cams and repositioned them so the dots were in the upright position, it was time to take a leap of faith in the info you guys have passed on to me and to all the other material I've either read or watched a gazillion times. I have to admit, as I grabbed a hold of my 17mm wrench just before I turned the crank I said a little prayer. "God, please don't let me f#*^ this up!" Doing the left side was much easier and took far less time. I got it timed in two attempts. As the crank pulley is coming around and I'm watching the dial gauge come around I realized that it's going to align together when the piston goes TDC. It was almost surreal. I couldn't believe I'd done. The right side took five attempts to get it to time properly. In following the instructions listed in Wayne's book I rotated the crank 720 degrees watching the dial gauge like a hawk, each time it came around perfect dead zero on the gauge and the TDC notch perfect aligned with the split mark in the case. Just to make sure I did that several times on both sides. And to make double certain the piston was at TDC I then inserted a long rod into the spark plug hole and then rotated the crank and watched the rod go into the cylinder as the piston lowered and then raised back up again. When the rod was at its longest point the dial indicator showed at 0.00mm and the crank pulley notch was at the case split mark. I think it's safe to say that I'm now ready to move on to the next step.

Thank you all everything you've contributed to this point, I feel like I've crossed over a major hurdle and I appreciate everyone's input.

DSPTurtle 05-19-2015 02:25 AM

Michael, what did the right side gauge read (4-6) after 360 degrees? You are trying to set how far open the valve is at the end of the exhaust start of the intake stroke.

michael lang 05-19-2015 02:54 AM

JB, I'm not sure what you mean. I rotated the crank a full 360 degrees and then went 1.26mm as per the spec sheet Mr Elgin sent me when he reconditioned the 964 cams I sent to him. Then I backed off the securing nut, removed the pin and rotated the crank pulley counter clockwise until it was back at TDC mark. Reinserted the pin and started all over again and I did that same process until the cams read zero on the dial gauge and the crank pulley Z1 mark was perfectly centered with the split line in the case and then rechecked my work to confirm the pistons were at the correct position. Did I do something wrong?

DSPTurtle 05-19-2015 03:36 AM

I'm missing your point on getting the cams back to "0 on the dial indicator". It sounds like in the first part of your post you did everything correct. It's just the emphasis on the second part I'm missing. They should stay at 0 on the gauge for a good portion of the rotation.
Unless you zeroed the gauge at 1.26mm. I'm sure it's just not coming across clearly in the message.
Left side cam at zero means right side cam should read 1.26mm. Add in 360 degree rotation, left side cam should read 1.26mm and right side should read zero. If that makes sense...
Don't ya just love trying to communicate complex actions via the forums. Lol

michael lang 05-19-2015 11:13 PM

Okay JB let me try it like this. Right now the #1 cyl rocker is tight. So much so there is no movement whatsoever and the #4 cyl rocker is loose to the point where I set it when I adjusted the tappett in the beginning of the procedure. When I turn the crank pulley 360 degrees the #1 cyl rocker gets loose and the #4 becomes tight. Does that make sense?
Unless I missed something, I believe I'm ready to move to the next step.

DSPTurtle 05-20-2015 02:34 AM

Ok. That sounds like you are exactly opposite of where you should be to start the process (with the dots up). #1 should be loose and #4 should be tight when you are dots up setting lash prior to setting final cam timing. Are you sure you have the correct cam in the correct side?

michael lang 05-20-2015 02:52 AM

I'm fairly certain, I used several sources for reference just to make sure I put the correct cam on the correct side. Lobes far apart on the left side and lobes close together on the right side.

This next part part has me confused a little bit. I haven't been able to find any videos online of the procedure so I'm having some difficulty in envisioning how the process is supposed to go. I've read the process in Wayne's book and used the Bentley manual, I'd like to watch how the timing adjustments are supposed to go at this point.

I'm almost over the hump, good thing too because my car was painted at the end of last week so that means the body shop is getting close to needed the drivetrain so they can send my car for corner balance and alignment. I cannot wait to see my car back in my garage again.

safe 05-20-2015 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael lang (Post 8630123)
Okay JB let me try it like this. Right now the #1 cyl rocker is tight. So much so there is no movement whatsoever and the #4 cyl rocker is loose to the point where I set it when I adjusted the tappett in the beginning of the procedure. When I turn the crank pulley 360 degrees the #1 cyl rocker gets loose and the #4 becomes tight. Does that make sense?
Unless I missed something, I believe I'm ready to move to the next step.

I think you are right. Just check that at TDC when the rockers for #1 is loose and that rotor in the distributer are pointing at the mark (mark equals sparklead for #1).

DSPTurtle 05-20-2015 03:20 AM

Google Nick Fulljames, cam timing. It should pop up a you tube video that will give you some perspective.

DSPTurtle 05-20-2015 03:22 AM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RPGGtiAeGAs

michael lang 05-20-2015 05:17 PM

That is not what I'm talking about. I watched that video a bazillion times. I am referring to checking piston/valve clearance. If both side are set correctly and after the timing comes out perfectly when the crank is rotated do I really need to worry about the piston/valve clearance?

safe 05-20-2015 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael lang (Post 8631317)
If both side are set correctly and after the timing comes out perfectly when the crank is rotated do I really need to worry about the piston/valve clearance?

No, not with stock cams/piston/valves and limited machining.

If you changed deck height, bumped compression, larger valves, different cams, then yes.

michael lang 05-25-2015 04:54 PM

I'm glad I listened, as I probably would have worried and obsessed about it wishing I had taken the time to check while I had the engine out of my car and apart. Now, I can be stress free about my engine's valve/piston clearance. Things came out perfect with plenty of space, I couldn't be happier. It took a lot longer than I expected it to but I just took my time and worked methodically until I measured all four rockers. Once I got past that I installed all the rockers, did the valve adjustment, and finished sealing up the front of the engine. I would have done the valve covers but I'm undecided as to whether I want to paint them. My preference is to stay with the natural color of aluminum and I bought the really trick metal treatment from Eastwood that I have been itching to use on my alternator housing and fan. I also got to do a bunch of other stuff these last couple of days. All in all it was a productive weekend especially since I am so burned out at work and have not been myself for the last two months.

michael lang 05-27-2015 11:57 PM

I know there is probably a simple solution but I'm going to throw this out there. I gapped the new spark plugs to go in the engine but they don't look quite right. I set the gap to 0.7mm and it appears as though it is incorrect.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...091586c168.jpg

Shouldn't the electrode align with the plug tip or am I over thinking this? If I'm thinking correctly, what's the best way to massage the tip over the electrode without damaging the plug?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

safe 05-28-2015 12:20 AM

To be honest, I have never gaped a plug.... In my experience they work fine out of the box...

But are you sure that is 0.7 mm? It looks a lot more than that.

JJ 911SC 05-28-2015 01:05 AM

That look like 7mm (.27").

.7mm is .027"

Brand/type?

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael lang (Post 8640701)
I know there is probably a simple solution but I'm going to throw this out there. I gapped the new spark plugs to go in the engine but they don't look quite right. I set the gap to 0.7mm and it appears as though it is incorrect.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...091586c168.jpg

Shouldn't the electrode align with the plug tip or am I over thinking this? If I'm thinking correctly, what's the best way to massage the tip over the electrode without damaging the plug?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


fred cook 05-28-2015 03:32 AM

Plug gap...........
 
0.7mm should be about 28 thousandths (.028) of an inch. The gap on your plugs looks to be much too large. To properly gap the plugs, you need to get a plug gapping tool. It looks like a pair of pliers that holds the plug in place while using a selection of different thickness shims to properly gap the plug. The end result will be a correct gap with the ground bar parallel to the electrode. Correct gapping can be done without the tool but it takes some practice/experience to get it right. Good luck!

DSPTurtle 05-28-2015 04:46 AM

I learned to use a battery top to tap the plug on. But then again, that was front engine muscle with the battery right there. Just find a hard, flat, smooth surface and give it a few firm raps on the electrode to close up the gap and reset it. Yes, the electrode should be pretty much directly over the center post.

michael lang 05-28-2015 05:28 AM

You guys are right, I'm a dumbass!! I should have read the box more closely. The Bosch copper plug box read as .8mm gap. How in the world did I miss that??? After looking a the gap tool I can now see how I missed it. Time to get another tool.

Jcslocum 05-28-2015 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michael lang (Post 8640701)
I know there is probably a simple solution but I'm going to throw this out there. I gapped the new spark plugs to go in the engine but they don't look quite right. I set the gap to 0.7mm and it appears as though it is incorrect.

Shouldn't the electrode align with the plug tip or am I over thinking this? If I'm thinking correctly, what's the best way to massage the tip over the electrode without damaging the plug?

That does not look like 027 thou to me. Looks way to wide a gap.


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