+1

I did that a couple years ago and it just (still) look great... Well worth the money.

I got to spend only a little time with my motor this weekend. Before I bolt the heads and cam towers back on I wanted to clean up the air foils a little bit before I put them back on so I took them down to the dealership and put them in the blasting cabinet. I started out with grimy grungy old things and after a few minutes each this is what I ended up with:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...44e79bff98.jpg

Then I went to a self storage facility and bought a wardrobe box so I could simulate a paint booth.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...a24e81e00a.jpg

And I set it up

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...7c64a9c792.jpg


I ordered this a couple of weeks ago. It's their new 2stage paint in a spray can and it is getting really good reviews so for $20 a can I ordered one.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...1cdfaeea27.jpg

I did a quick wipe down on the parts and I got right to work. It's easy to use, sprays evenly and is nice & thick. Once it dries, it leaves a hard shiny surface. Although not as durable or as nice as powder coat for $20 it's pretty damn good. I plan on letting this coat sit overnight and will do another coat tomorrow. Before I install them back on the motor, I will post some close ups after another coat or two. Initial impression, I will order it again for the engine tin after I bead blast those panels.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...d9eb93d889.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...230dca4b91.jpg

I've got everything back to the point where I can set the timing. The Bentley manual shows as using for the correct starting point on the cam as "930" as being on the top when it is in the cam tower. The Nick Fuljames videos refer to using the two dots on the camshaft end being on top as the correct starting point. Since I'm installing 964 cams in my engine, should I be using as a starting point the dot or the "964" imprint on the cam end as the top position?
This is where I am now:

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...f227a4a540.jpg

Is this the correct starting point to setting the timing?

Thanks in advance.

Sometimes you can't trust markings.

So start like you have it now, turn the engine and look at what it does, understand what is happening on cylinder 1 and 4.
Its important that they do the opposite things, then you have them right and can continue with the timing.

Go slow. Only install the 1 & 4 intake rockers if you haven't already done them all. Less chance of hurting something. You can also do your logic check as the number 1 intake lobe should be on the base circle and #4 should be near the nose.

I'm stuck. Some of the material I have read instruct only the intake rockers, some of the material say to do intake & exhaust rockers on # 1 & 4 cyl. If I remember correctly the Nick Fuljames videos mention both rockers for each cyl. and I have spoken with some techs that do it without any rockers in at all. So I went the safe route and did both intake and exhaust on the #1 cyl. The lobe on the cam was at its highest point so getting the valve tappet adjusted was next to impossible because of the cam positioning. Next thing I know is the cam position it rotated at the rest position. The rocker is putting pressure on the lobe which is causing the cam to change its position

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...2c9c64cf05.jpg

I feel like I'm so close to getting it right but I'm missing a step I just don't know what it is. I have the tensioners set up but I think I might have them too tight. I have next to no play in the chain. How much slack should there be in the timing chains?

Did you set the dots up on both sides with the #1 piston at TDC?

To set cam timing, the presumption is that #1 and #4 pistons are at TDC. Here's just a basic procedure to get you over the initial hurdle of installing the cams correctly.

Without the valve train connected, rotate the crank pulley so the TDC mark aligns with the split in the case. In this position, both #1 and #4 will be at TDC.

Install the left bank cam (123) so the stamped end mark is at 12 o'clock. No mark? Rotate the cam so no. 1 in. and exh. cam lobes are in a position that would leave both valves closed, that is, at or near the base or heel of each lobe. You should be able to install the intake and exh. rockers for no. 1 cyl. at this point. This is the starting point for setting the cam timing: no. 1 cylinder is at end of the compression stroke ready to fire; both valves closed.

Adjust the valve clearance per spec (.004" - please confirm).

One of the marks on your cam should be 12 o'clock. Mark it as such so you can monitor it. Install the cam timing sprocket and chain. Insert the timing pin at a convenient spot to lock the sprocket to the cam, then snug down the cam retaining nut or bolt.

With a dial indicator on the adjuster of the intake rocker arm (preload to "0"), slowly rotate the engine clockwise one revolution (toward the overlap position where exh. valve closes and intake valve opens) while observing the dial indicator. At some point, the indicator will begin to move which coincides with valve opening. Record the indicator reading, then compare with specs.

If adjustment is needed (most likely), return to the start position, remove the pin and adjust the cam sprocket one hole in whatever direction needed to get closer to spec. Reinsert the pin and retest/redo until it's within specs.

Repeat the above for cylinder no. 4. Observe that when no. 1 is at TDC ready to fire, no. 4 is at TDC overlap position (one revolution difference).

That's the basic procedure. I've left out some details including:

- Confirm left/right cam sprocket depth is identical
- Set chain tension to accurately set cam timing
- Timing creep after cam nut/bolt is tightened to spec
-Double check timing is identical both sides and no extra parts; torque to spec, etc.

The following link may assist as well as the procedures described in other threads and 911 rebuilding books by Dempsey and Anderson.
CamTiming-1

Hope this helps,
Sherwood

Should have just told you to make sure the keyways were up...

Thank you for the explanation Sherwood, I decided to take it all apart and start over from step one. Somewhere along the line, I either missed something or got ahead of myself and did step five before step two. So I think that is probably the best path, I'll just take my time and work methodically at it until it is right. I understand the process and I understand the importance of getting it correct for some reason I'm just hung up on this, it's almost like a mental roadblock because I know if I get it wrong and put it all together, I'll have to rip it all apart again and I don't want to do that.

JB, if you take a look at the first of the two cam/sprocket pics, that shows what it looked like before I installed the intake rocker. I was mixed about whether to go with the '964' stamp on the top or go with the dot just to the right of the '964'. After going through the Bentley manual and doing some forum search, I decided to go with the stamp at the top. This also happens to be where the keyway is located. Now, take a look at the second pic of the cam, this is after I installed the #1 intake rocker arm. Note how the '964' stamp is slightly askew to the left. I can see what the issue is, the rocker is pressing against the cam lobe and because the clearance is so tight the pressure is causing the cam to rotate off center ever so slightly. My concern is, this is what is causing my hang up. Eventhough it is only slightly off center, how will this affect me accurately setting up the timing? I have made sure that I installed the correct cam on the correct side. Maybe I have the chain too tight which is pulling on the sprocket which is moving the cam, if I loosened the chain a little or removed the pin from the sprocket to allow the tension to release and everything relax, will that free everything up and allow things set up correctly? How play should there be in the chain?
Thanks for the guidance.

The chain needs to be tight.
The rocker will push on the cam, if it's on the lobe, enough to move the cam. You might need to hold it with the crank.

You could also install ALL rockers, that will help to hold the cam steady...ish.
If you have the crank at TDC and the cams with the markings/key up you are safe to rotate the engine.


Edit:
This is how I usually do it.
Install the cams key upward with the crank at TDC. Tighten the bolt on the cam, not to full torque but enough.
Install all rockers, rotating the engine as needed (with something to hold the chain tight).
Check that cylinder 1 and 4 isn't doing the same thing at the same time....
Set the correct valve clearance (This might be different for different cams, I have a set of aftermarket cams that need zero clearance for timing).

Then you are set for the sometime frustrating part of cam timing.

Do you have proper lash on the elephant foot? The #1 rocker should be loose and able to be "wiggled". Not sure what you mean by the rocker is pushing on the cam. Do you have a pic?

I put these in last night and kept thinking about your thread while I was doing it to figure out if there was a picture I could take to explain it better. I didn't thinkof anything...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1431092465.jpg

Took a couple steps back and redid what I had done. After carefully assessing where I went off path I now have the cam keyway in the right position and the '964' is clearly centered on top.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...08cc5d2978.jpg

It took a lot of patience and several tries but I finally got it. I got the dial gauge set up at 10mm like the Wayne's rebuild book indicated. Now it's talking about things that are somewhat unfamiliar to me in "valve lash" and "overlap". I've watched Nick Fuljames's and Steven Stomski's videos and I don't fully understand the philosophy and I'm having trouble comprehending how to actually set it up correctly. What exactly is valve lash and overlap and what does it do or supposed to do?

Ignore overlap for now. Start by setting valve lash. Thats the amount of "wiggle" the rocker has when the piston is at TDC. If your crank pulley is at Z1, and your cams are straight up, you are ready to set the lash on the intake rocker for Cylinder 1.
After you do that, spin the crank 360 degrees and you will be at TDC for Cylinder 4.
Valve lash is measured between the elephant foot and the valve stem tip. Do you have the special feeler gauge for making this job easier?

Thank you JB for the explanation, and yes I do have a feeler gauge. When I checked the #1 intake, I am finding that the tappet is all the way backed off and it is pressed up against the valve stem tip. Even with no adjustment it is very tight fit. Could that be because of the change in cam that I put in the engine? Somewhere along the line, the right side cam became out of position just like the left side, so I got to spend a little time with it last night when I got home from work, I have the right side cam almost perfectly centered so I hope to be turning the crank pulley this evening.

I would not turn the pulley until you figure out why you can't get lash on the number one intake.
Can you post some pics?
Z1 on the pulley should be straight up and even with the case parting line. Both cams should have their keyways straight up. Number one should be at TDC with both valves closed all the way and lash being able to be measured.

Valve lash = valve clearece
You only set/check that at TDC when the rocker is on the base circle.

Am I reading this right, you are starting with cyl # 1 at TDC and the cam with the "964" mark at the top, If thats the case you are way off. The cam has to be set with the DOT at the top position, then you go from there.
Please check THIS LINK

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...s/beerchug.gif

crg53, that's really interesting. Before I installed everything, I had looked all through the material I have and it all pointed towards installing the cam with the stamp at the top which also happens to be the location of the keyway. So when I read that and I positioned the cam in that position, I figured I was on my way. The video you posted shows me I would have been making a big mistake. Thanks for posting that for me.

I did it. I'm so relieved I got past that hurdle for me. After I took the sprockets off of the cams and repositioned them so the dots were in the upright position, it was time to take a leap of faith in the info you guys have passed on to me and to all the other material I've either read or watched a gazillion times. I have to admit, as I grabbed a hold of my 17mm wrench just before I turned the crank I said a little prayer. "God, please don't let me f#*^ this up!" Doing the left side was much easier and took far less time. I got it timed in two attempts. As the crank pulley is coming around and I'm watching the dial gauge come around I realized that it's going to align together when the piston goes TDC. It was almost surreal. I couldn't believe I'd done. The right side took five attempts to get it to time properly. In following the instructions listed in Wayne's book I rotated the crank 720 degrees watching the dial gauge like a hawk, each time it came around perfect dead zero on the gauge and the TDC notch perfect aligned with the split mark in the case. Just to make sure I did that several times on both sides. And to make double certain the piston was at TDC I then inserted a long rod into the spark plug hole and then rotated the crank and watched the rod go into the cylinder as the piston lowered and then raised back up again. When the rod was at its longest point the dial indicator showed at 0.00mm and the crank pulley notch was at the case split mark. I think it's safe to say that I'm now ready to move on to the next step.

Thank you all everything you've contributed to this point, I feel like I've crossed over a major hurdle and I appreciate everyone's input.

Michael, what did the right side gauge read (4-6) after 360 degrees? You are trying to set how far open the valve is at the end of the exhaust start of the intake stroke.

JB, I'm not sure what you mean. I rotated the crank a full 360 degrees and then went 1.26mm as per the spec sheet Mr Elgin sent me when he reconditioned the 964 cams I sent to him. Then I backed off the securing nut, removed the pin and rotated the crank pulley counter clockwise until it was back at TDC mark. Reinserted the pin and started all over again and I did that same process until the cams read zero on the dial gauge and the crank pulley Z1 mark was perfectly centered with the split line in the case and then rechecked my work to confirm the pistons were at the correct position. Did I do something wrong?

I'm missing your point on getting the cams back to "0 on the dial indicator". It sounds like in the first part of your post you did everything correct. It's just the emphasis on the second part I'm missing. They should stay at 0 on the gauge for a good portion of the rotation.
Unless you zeroed the gauge at 1.26mm. I'm sure it's just not coming across clearly in the message.
Left side cam at zero means right side cam should read 1.26mm. Add in 360 degree rotation, left side cam should read 1.26mm and right side should read zero. If that makes sense...
Don't ya just love trying to communicate complex actions via the forums. Lol

Okay JB let me try it like this. Right now the #1 cyl rocker is tight. So much so there is no movement whatsoever and the #4 cyl rocker is loose to the point where I set it when I adjusted the tappett in the beginning of the procedure. When I turn the crank pulley 360 degrees the #1 cyl rocker gets loose and the #4 becomes tight. Does that make sense?
Unless I missed something, I believe I'm ready to move to the next step.

Ok. That sounds like you are exactly opposite of where you should be to start the process (with the dots up). #1 should be loose and #4 should be tight when you are dots up setting lash prior to setting final cam timing. Are you sure you have the correct cam in the correct side?

I'm fairly certain, I used several sources for reference just to make sure I put the correct cam on the correct side. Lobes far apart on the left side and lobes close together on the right side.

This next part part has me confused a little bit. I haven't been able to find any videos online of the procedure so I'm having some difficulty in envisioning how the process is supposed to go. I've read the process in Wayne's book and used the Bentley manual, I'd like to watch how the timing adjustments are supposed to go at this point.

I'm almost over the hump, good thing too because my car was painted at the end of last week so that means the body shop is getting close to needed the drivetrain so they can send my car for corner balance and alignment. I cannot wait to see my car back in my garage again.

I think you are right. Just check that at TDC when the rockers for #1 is loose and that rotor in the distributer are pointing at the mark (mark equals sparklead for #1).

Google Nick Fulljames, cam timing. It should pop up a you tube video that will give you some perspective.

That is not what I'm talking about. I watched that video a bazillion times. I am referring to checking piston/valve clearance. If both side are set correctly and after the timing comes out perfectly when the crank is rotated do I really need to worry about the piston/valve clearance?

No, not with stock cams/piston/valves and limited machining.

If you changed deck height, bumped compression, larger valves, different cams, then yes.

I'm glad I listened, as I probably would have worried and obsessed about it wishing I had taken the time to check while I had the engine out of my car and apart. Now, I can be stress free about my engine's valve/piston clearance. Things came out perfect with plenty of space, I couldn't be happier. It took a lot longer than I expected it to but I just took my time and worked methodically until I measured all four rockers. Once I got past that I installed all the rockers, did the valve adjustment, and finished sealing up the front of the engine. I would have done the valve covers but I'm undecided as to whether I want to paint them. My preference is to stay with the natural color of aluminum and I bought the really trick metal treatment from Eastwood that I have been itching to use on my alternator housing and fan. I also got to do a bunch of other stuff these last couple of days. All in all it was a productive weekend especially since I am so burned out at work and have not been myself for the last two months.

I know there is probably a simple solution but I'm going to throw this out there. I gapped the new spark plugs to go in the engine but they don't look quite right. I set the gap to 0.7mm and it appears as though it is incorrect.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...091586c168.jpg

Shouldn't the electrode align with the plug tip or am I over thinking this? If I'm thinking correctly, what's the best way to massage the tip over the electrode without damaging the plug?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To be honest, I have never gaped a plug.... In my experience they work fine out of the box...

But are you sure that is 0.7 mm? It looks a lot more than that.

That look like 7mm (.27").

.7mm is .027"

Brand/type?

Plug gap...........
 

0.7mm should be about 28 thousandths (.028) of an inch. The gap on your plugs looks to be much too large. To properly gap the plugs, you need to get a plug gapping tool. It looks like a pair of pliers that holds the plug in place while using a selection of different thickness shims to properly gap the plug. The end result will be a correct gap with the ground bar parallel to the electrode. Correct gapping can be done without the tool but it takes some practice/experience to get it right. Good luck!

I learned to use a battery top to tap the plug on. But then again, that was front engine muscle with the battery right there. Just find a hard, flat, smooth surface and give it a few firm raps on the electrode to close up the gap and reset it. Yes, the electrode should be pretty much directly over the center post.

You guys are right, I'm a dumbass!! I should have read the box more closely. The Bosch copper plug box read as .8mm gap. How in the world did I miss that??? After looking a the gap tool I can now see how I missed it. Time to get another tool.

That does not look like 027 thou to me. Looks way to wide a gap.