Question about 3.0 with 2.7 parts
 

So the car I just bought has a 3.0 in it, with a 2.7 dizzy, 2.7 permatune cdi, and 3.0 cis.
It runs well when warmed up, and decent when cold but doesn't like to hold idle until it's warmed up.
Warm starts (after taco bell or something of that nature), it misfires until it gets back up to 210*ish
Also, it sometimes holds idle at 2k when warmed up, and I can bring it down by using a gear to bog it down, then it drops to 1000.

A friend of mine is suspicious that cis vs potentially wur mismatch is an issue. Or that advance curve isn't right, etc.

Unplugging wur kills it, so it at least functions some. AAR functions. Also both get 12v running.
As a side note, fuel pump runs always with ignition on, and is not a bad relay, in case it makes a difference.

I plan to do some part number searching and further testing soon. Just thought I'd get preliminary ideas.

It's in a 77 targa, originally 2.7, but confirmed 3L by 4 journal cams and case stamped 930/06. Case was originally from a 68, and appears porsche re stamped it around 78 and used it for this.

The bottom of the engine is built like a 76/77 3.0 using the crank drive for the distributor and CD
You have to run fuel pressure checks to check the WUR.
Bruce

I read about pressure checks for wur. I thought unplugging was at least a semidefinitive test, no? I'll try to get hooked up and test correctly.
So are you saying 76/77 3.0 do not spin the dizzy opposite the 2.7?

Also, its a factory porsche part numbered silver permatune cdi, if that makes a difference.

When I run pressure checks I unplug the WUR to give me a base number that won't change until I desire to time the running system. The car should run unplugged. Did you ohm the WUR?
The 76/77 3.0 runs a 2.7 distributor.
I m currently building a long block 3.0 that will be set up to use your 2.7 CD and distributor. 9.3 CR, just add your Webers.
Bruce

Duplicate of previous post

Interesting situation. Your case casting number is an SC, not a '68 restamp. Which way does the disributor spin, the 2.7 distributor was not meant to run the same direction as the 3.0 distributor. As Bruce mentioned, the internal drive gear would have needed to be changed.

This motor gets more and more confusing!
The distributor spins clockwise

So what I find so far is that fuel spider is part number 0 438 100 077 which is 80-83 3.0

WUR is part 0 438 140 033 which is 76-78 911s

Just because someone else mentioned it elsewhere, intake runners are 911 110 169 4R which apparently references "the bigger ones"

Distributor cap is 1235 522 060
Distributor is 0231184007 which is 2.7s

The cdi box is permatune, and is silver, but my friend reassures me it was the blue one now faded. It has a part number starting in 911 but the rest is faded, so it is the porsche placed part

So it looks like my wur and spider don't match. That could be the problem. That distributor being a 2.7 could be an issue too

All distributors run clockwise except 78 to 83 and 78 on turbo.
Bruce

It seems a lot of different parts were used to build this motor. 930/06 1978 SC 930 101 103 4R case, but clockwise 1977 2.7 distributor. I would think the case was apart to change the distributor drive to clockwise.
What was used for the 77 Carrera 3.0 engine?

76/77 3.0 Carrera and turbo used a 2.7 crankshaft and rods
Clockwise drive on a SC, yes someone was in there..could have been me
Bruce

So is it agreed that the wur needs to be swapped to 3.0 to match FD?
What should I do about the 2.7 dist?

You need to do a fuel pressure check, if you don't you're wasting your time and money
What do you figure you want to do with the distributor, you don't have option unless you are willing to split the case.
The spark system you have works, fuel, weather it's the WUR or the fuel distributor needs to be sorted.
Bruce

Like Bruce said, without the CIS pressure gages to check the system, you cannot get things in order.
I think you will be better off starting a new thread in the Technical Forum. The problem I see is the mis matched system parts. I am not familiar with the later 80-83 CIS. Your fuel distributor is from a CIS that used a frequency valve and O2 sensor to adjust the fuel distributor to fine tune the mixture. I don't know how the later fuel distributor would work with out the rest of the components. You need advice from those more familiar with it.

Alright. The lambda and corresponding lines have been bypassed fyi.
I do have access to cis gauges so that's not an issue.
Instead of splitting the case, I can recurve the distributor correct?
I'll probably go with swapping wur as I'm sure it's the less expensive and easier route.
I appreciate all your info guys, thanks. Not sure why my projects cant ever be simple! :p

Distributor rotation shouldn't matter as long as the plug wires run to the correct cylinder when they are supposed to fire.

If you need a CO meter to set up your mixture I'm not too far away from you in West Salem.
I have a proper fuel gauge too.

Your car would be nicely warmed up (like it needs to be to make CO adjustments) driving it here. :)
Or, I could come see you.

Send me a PM with your phone number and I'll give you a call if you want.

I had a 3.0L that had 2.7L CIS and Distributor. It ran just fine. Not a huge HP motor (167whp) with the terrible thermal reactor delete exhaust but the car was very responsive with tons of midrange grunt. HRG 911 Baseline Dyno - YouTube

I would look for vacuum leaks and what not first. Mine had a high idle on cold starts (normal) but once warm was rock solid with all 2.7L parts.

Evan, did you have the 2.7 distributor running clockwise? I could see the advance curve from the 2.7 working in the 3.0, but only if running clockwise. The advantage of the SC distributor is no points.

You might be able to move the ignition wires to accommodate the different rotation, but If you reverse the rotation, the advance weights would retard the ignition, and the vacuum retard would advance the ignition. His 2.7 distributor is running in the proper clockwise direction.

Yes, whomever built the motor flipped the distributor drive gear.

If in the OP's motor this was not done, I would think putting in an SC distributor would be the solution.

My setup seems finicky. When I first start it, it idles perfect at 1kish.
When I start to drive it, it won't idle cold. Just dies when I clutch in.
Once it's hot it decides if it wants to idle at 2k or 1k. I can bog it to 1k if it stops at 2k.
Today it actually would NOT go below 2400 or so for a while after warmed up, but I parked and came back and it dropped to 1k every time.

Timmy- I have a shop I volunteer at that just moved from Dallas to amity. If you ever go to shell in West Salem, my god friend and previous 944 coowner is the manager!
Do you do cars and coffee Keizer? I regular at tigard c and cr.
I have access to cis pressure gauges, and I'm pretty sure a co meter. If not I'll let you know!
A few of us from portland area are driving out to bible creek rd past Willamina tomorrow after c and c to check it out for the hillclimb next weekend if you're interested.

I checked this morning actually to see if I had access to the afm mixture screw, and it looks like a previous owner took the plug out so I do. We will be starting with that tonight and possibly a pressure test.

Evan - maybe this is your old motor. Lol. Thermactors gone and the welds look like a third grade did them

Ed,
I wasn't suggesting he change the rotation, I was just stating that the rotation doesn't matter if it is correct for the distributor and connected that way. :)

PDX-944
Are you Jim? Dallas shop on main?
I go to Tigard C&C fairly often.
Black '78 targa with red interior and EFI.
Sound like you are running slightly rich, but you won't know for sure without testing...

Haha jim is my good friend and resource for all the Porsche stuff. I introduced him to the shop actually. I started running it about a year before I met him.
I've probably met you. I always drive the gold 944 to c and c. Or you've seen me there interpret for my deaf friends.
I just picked this up last Friday. Had it at c and c this last Saturday. Black beat up slantnose

Dennis, I was making sure that no one gets confused reading this and tries to swap distributors from SC's and earlier engines by only changing the drive gear at the base of the distributor. The case would need to be split to change the internal gear to swap distributors.
Here are some base specifications on the distributor timing for the different years, with the '77 california being the one with the biggest difference due to emmisions that year.
'76 and earlier 5' atdc with vaccum
'77 15' atdc with vacuum
'78 5' btdc with vacuum
PDX-944, you would have to set timing at idle accordingly. Using SC timing with a '77 distributor would not work. Of course maximum advance at 6000 rpm is more important.

Makes sense,
I guess this is what I get for buying a project 911 haha
Really the car overall is not all that far off. I have a growing list of things to fix but it's absolutely driveable in the meantime. Once this fuel setup is sorted it will be nice.
Isnt 77 cis supposed to be the worst? I guess this arrangement may test that theory :p

I have seen the gold 944 and have probably talked with you.
I can probably solve your fuel pump running problem as well.
My guess is the wrong engine harness is installed, or something was missed with the air flow switch. (Brown/Black wire)

I just read a post of yours from 2012 about you being an electrician and taking X days to sort wiring. I was going to comment if I left my car with you itd take weeks, the wiring is a disaster. Someone just went through and cut everything along the dash in the front. Someone later "fixed" it. It's scary. I have schematics (from Jim) and am slowly going to start working through it. I did some semitemporary fixes to connect my cig lighter and fog lights. Undoubtedly wiring is the problem for the FP. the air flow switch wasnt plugged in when I got the car and it still ran

I think you're trying to make thing more complicated than they can be
I the dist running clockwise?
Are you on TDC correctly or are you off a tooth?
Is the plug wires firing order correct?
Have you ohmed the WUR?
The biggest jury rig of all is the lambda fuel distributor
Bruce

It will run with the air flow switch unplugged, no ground path to the relay terminal 85 is why it runs all the time.
Might see you and your car tomorrow at Portland C&C, there isn't one at Keizer tomorrow is there?

Bruce- the car runs great 95% of the time, so no on some of those

Dennis- c and c is every weekend up here, I assume Keizer is the same. Portland c and c is different than tigard c and c. Portland is at the airport, no good. Tigard is best!

I attend the Tigard C&C at Starbucks, never been to any other in the Portland area.
I think the Keizer C&C is only once a month.

Well ill be there tomorrow, but with 944 I think.
Youre correct that microswitch is not getting 85 to ground.
Actually by hand, there is no click pulling or pushing the flapper up or down. It should click, no?

Question about 3.0 with 2.7 parts
 

No click, the circuit just makes up by touching the male post when the plate is at rest.
I'm headed up there this morning after I fuel up.
Don't tell your buddy, but it won't be at the West Salem Shell store as they are the highest price around! Usually by 5-10 cents...

Lol, I tell him that all the time!
He knows it :p

Nice meeting you today and seeing the "frankenporsche"
:)
You have your work cut out for you with the wiring, but at least you now know where to start looking after doing the meter tests with me today.

Yup! I appreciate the help. We're currently fitting the 17x9 and 11s I got today. 315s in the rear.. a bit excessive but got a good deal

Okay I want to continue this investigation.
The car runs, and pretty dang well. It was a bit lean, so we adjusted the mixture just until it started getting rich.
Now it won't idle most of the time. It will surge a few times then die.
It still sometimes idles at 2000, and can be coaxed down or will slowly drop to 1k on its own.

It's the bypassed lambda fuel distributor hopeless? 2.7 wur? 2.7 distributor?
Where should I start? There are too many factors for me to know what to do first.
I guess I'm looking to others experiences to say "hey, I've bypassed the lambda stuff, it can be tuned fine." etc

Question about 3.0 with 2.7 parts
 

Post your fuel pressures,
system, Cold, warm and running hot.

Up to full running temp when adjusting richness with a CO meter? What type of meter?
What did you set it to?
Is there a Catalytic converter installed and where did you sample the CO?
Sounds like it is running too rich now.

It turns out he doesn't have a CO meter, so to adjust it that way I'd have to use yours. Pressure gauges for cis and whatnot he does have and I have yet to do, but I suppose that's the first step, and when I do I'll post results.
No cats on this. Only exhaust leaks. Lol