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-   -   Help, newly built engine burns a lot of oil (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/839950-help-newly-built-engine-burns-lot-oil.html)

Neffets 11-25-2014 07:57 AM

I startet the WOT treatment yesterday, found a small hill to go up and down, can only get 180F on the oil, but in the end i boiled my brake fluid :p
I'm going to put some cardboard over the oil cooler to get the engine warmer. I also checked the oil thermostat today and that was ok.
(and put in new brake fluid)

600miles at the moment, changed from 20w-50 dino, to 10w-40dino

Crankcase ventilation goes to a cath tank that ventilates under the car at the moment.

Neffets 02-28-2015 03:02 PM

I leaned out the carbs and drove hard a couple hundred miles more in januray (during my first hundred miles I found out later it was running very rich), but I'm still at almost 1quartof oil /100miles! I haven't done more after winter came, but I bought a boroscoe camera and this is the result. I guess I have about 1500miles on it atfter rebuild.

But these pictures suggest I need to pull the engine again and fix what? And what are those small pearls on the top of the piston on cyl1?

CYL1
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/o...psvvgnu3yo.png

CYL2
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/o...pskgvaxqsy.png

CYL3
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps8cvz0nyv.png

CYL4
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/o...psttswvcuo.png

CYL5
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/o...psfpaldcou.png

CYL6
http://i380.photobucket.com/albums/o...psfwx2yrdn.png

cgarr 02-28-2015 03:08 PM

Were those pistons new? Last pic shows pitting? Have you done a leakdown? You might find some broken rings?

Neffets 02-28-2015 03:22 PM

Brand new pistons, last picture no pitting but oil/carbon deposits same as the others.

Compression warm engine
Cyl1 207psi
Cyl2 210psi
Cyl3 214psi
Cyl4 194psi
Cyl5 204psi
Cyl6 210psi

Leak down 4-6& on cold engine

But I guess these reading might be affected with the oil on the cylinders/ ecxessive oil consumption?

Dpmulvan 02-28-2015 05:55 PM

Those little "pearls" almost look like molten metal specks?

Lapkritis 03-01-2015 04:52 AM

Carbs look out of balance judging by those piston photos.

All pistons have oil /fuel puddled in the valve relief. I'd start by retuning then checking valve stem seals before considering taking it apart.

Lapkritis 03-01-2015 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neffets (Post 8367172)
JE oil ring gap says 0,015", I'm at 0,0138"
1&2 ring is at 8-4 o'clock, oil expander ring 12, top&bottom rails at 10-14
And oil expander ring is not overlapping

This might be the problem...

You never want to be too tight with rings, ever. They need a minimum gap for thermal expansion. As the engine heats, the gap closes when the metal expands... So if the gap is too tight when cold then it may jam when hot and running out of space. This condition can break rings, ringlands and scuff cylinder bore all resulting in increased oil consumption. Loose ring end gap sounds bad but is actually safe.

I notice JE ships with rings always requiring sizing. Which is how they should do it so you can set for your application... Not good for folks who don't want to set buzz down ring gap.

The welded micro specs on top of cylinder 1 have me worried for you...

Neffets 03-01-2015 09:36 AM

The JE oil ring gap I guess is for cast iron block, so I went with the minimum Porsche spec ring gap, but maybe that's was a fault...

I took of the valve covers but I can't see the valve stem seals without taking the valve spring off.
I changed all valve stem seals to Viton when it was apart.

kodioneill 03-05-2015 06:15 AM

With the engine running rich you may have washed down the cylinder walls causing the rings to wear down because of a lack of lubrication. May also cause scouring on the cylinder walls.

VFR750 03-16-2015 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neffets (Post 8510572)
The JE oil ring gap I guess is for cast iron block, so I went with the minimum Porsche spec ring gap, but maybe that's was a fault...

I took of the valve covers but I can't see the valve stem seals without taking the valve spring off.
I changed all valve stem seals to Viton when it was apart.

The JE pistons come with their general ring specs on the enclosed instructions. I think the guidelines seem right for a water cooled engine. Based on a 95mm bore the gaps are: .0168"min, .0187"min, and .015"min.

But that isn't really correct for our use.

JE pistons came with Porsche specific Goetz rings. The air-cooled Porsche cylinders require a much tighter gap apparently, to account for the large cylinder growth when hot.

For my 1982 3.0, they are: 0.008" min (.2mm-.4mm), 0.008" min (.2mm-.4mm) and 0.0118" min (.3mm-.6mm)

See Wayne's Book Appendix A. Bentley Manual is the same.

Factory manual is a little confusing, but on the same order of magnitude.

Sboxin 03-16-2015 06:20 PM

Question for OP - - did you do the ring break in with the 20-50 oil ??
We used the Gibbs break in oil on track and then drained and refilled with 20-50 race oil.

Just a thought . . .

Regards,

racing97 03-17-2015 06:46 AM

In the days when a ring manufacturer could not make a ring that was concentric mechanics started to oil the rings while installing them so that premature wear would not occur while the ring was trying to find its dimension, then Grant Rings made the softest ring and became a giant in the industry all because it became round in the bore faster.
If you over lubricated your Pistons while assembly and this means any more than just a little WD 40 to stop the squeaking it is possible you have glazed the bore and the rings won't seat or will take along time to seat.

jayson928 03-17-2015 10:48 AM

Did you hone your cylinders?

Silly question, but there have been some people who have done that...

Neffets 03-19-2015 03:41 PM

Cylinders were nikasil plated and honed to mahle spec.
I will take the engine out next week i think.
I suspect either overoiling when installing the pistons, or something went wrong with my exhaust valve guides. The lower the oil level , less smoke, and also if i drive along for a periode of time, then floor it, alot of smoke. So i'm thinking leaking exhaust valves, pooling in the heaters, and then when i floor it , heat and flow pushes /heats up the oil there.
that's one theory.

I put in new spark plugs now, so will take it for a spin, then take the engine out, and then maybe the spark plugs will tell me something.

jayson928 03-19-2015 03:49 PM

Hopefully not in that order. You cannot hone after nikasil is applied, that will cause a myriad of problems! I'm guessing they were honed before plated with nikasil. If not, that's probably the root of your problem!

Neffets 03-20-2015 01:35 AM

It was done by US Chrome, so I guess they know what they are doing :)

racing97 03-20-2015 08:06 AM

Barrels are always honed after the application treatment there is a cross hatch pattern to new Barrels and that is what produces the pattern.

regards

Trackrash 03-27-2015 09:29 AM

I had a set of new rings not seal in a car I rebuilt a number of years ago. Apparently the crankcase breather was blocked causing oil to be forced up past the rings which allowed the cylinders to glaze over. I had to re-hone the cylinders and fix the breather.

I don't think that is your problem, I hope it is your valve guides. Keep us posted as to your findings.


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