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Porsche Crest 964 Cams Swap, a Journey

So today is day 1 of my journey to swap the cams.



Of course other items while I am in there but I am trying to regulate myself not to go too crazy.

But before any swapping, I need to check timing, do a leak down test and check everything I can short of cam housing & head removal and/or spliting the case.

Fun Fun
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Last edited by DRACO A5OG; 08-13-2016 at 10:30 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 06-14-2016, 08:39 AM
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Are you cutting off the servopump drive?
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Old 06-14-2016, 09:23 AM
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Old 06-14-2016, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by safe View Post
Are you cutting off the servopump drive?
Done, one has to cut it off. $10 bucks at Vellios above was fresh out of the box

Dropping Engine tonight, hate doing it at night but "I have Miles to go Before I sleep" Trying to time my trip with rockers at DRC. :-P

Taking a break now to eat.
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'85 Carrera Targa
Factory Marble Grey/Black * Turbo Tail * 930 Steering Wheel* Sport Seats * 17" Fuchs (r) * 3.4 * 964 Cams * 915 * LSD * Factory SS * Turbo Tie Rods * Bilsteins * Euro Pre-Muff * SW Chip on 4K DME * NGK * Sienes GSK * Targa Body Brace
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Last edited by DRACO A5OG; 08-13-2016 at 10:29 PM..
Old 06-14-2016, 07:54 PM
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im planning to do the same, ive got some pitting on a couple lobes so im eagerly awaiting your results. if you need a hand or anything let me know- im not far from you
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:21 PM
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Oh Cool, that would be great.

Timing is the biggest hurdle, I want to do as Close to PAG as possible. I know it can't be perfect so I have to get my OCD in check.

I am also going to try to replace valve seals with the Lisle Valve Spring remover with Cam Housing on Not really wanting to break the seal and warp the housing if I screw up, not to mention snapping the NOS 964 Cams.

I am scared Poopless
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'85 Carrera Targa
Factory Marble Grey/Black * Turbo Tail * 930 Steering Wheel* Sport Seats * 17" Fuchs (r) * 3.4 * 964 Cams * 915 * LSD * Factory SS * Turbo Tie Rods * Bilsteins * Euro Pre-Muff * SW Chip on 4K DME * NGK * Sienes GSK * Targa Body Brace
PCA/POC

Last edited by DRACO A5OG; 08-13-2016 at 10:31 PM..
Old 06-14-2016, 10:25 PM
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Ah Poop, wife is yelling at me to come to bed :-(

Well, all is disconnected and ready to drop in the AM.
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'85 Carrera Targa
Factory Marble Grey/Black * Turbo Tail * 930 Steering Wheel* Sport Seats * 17" Fuchs (r) * 3.4 * 964 Cams * 915 * LSD * Factory SS * Turbo Tie Rods * Bilsteins * Euro Pre-Muff * SW Chip on 4K DME * NGK * Sienes GSK * Targa Body Brace
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Old 06-15-2016, 12:14 AM
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Very cool project.
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Old 06-15-2016, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRACO A5OG View Post

Well, all is disconnected and ready to drop in the AM.
Do a double check to be sure. There's always something we forget. Commonly forgotten items:

Up top:

-fuel injector harness plug on top of shock tower
-fuel line to pressure regulator or fuel line to top of fuel filter
-ignition coil wire
-bundle of ground wires ganged on the intake manifold runner
-O2 sensor harness plug
-three harness plugs on left side of intake manifold for two timing reference sensors and head temp. sensor
-breather hoses from oil tank to throttle body elbow and/or engine case vent
-charcoal cannister hose to back of air filter housing
-cruise control cable & vacuum hose
-PCV valve hose
-various harness plugs: idle control motor, airflow meter, throttle position sensor, etc.
-bunch of A/C stuff
-large multi-pin harness connector from engine to fuse panel on left side of engine bay
-brake booster vacuum hose

Down below:

-throttle rod female ball end socket on transmission bellcrank
-clutch cable
-transmission ground strap
-speedometer sending unit wiring
-oil scavenge line union ahead of oil tank and S-hose at oil tank
-starter (+) hot lead from battery (disconnect battery so you don't short to ground and start an unintended welding project....... )
-heat exchanger hoses
-remove rear sway bar
-remove shift rod coupler cone screw and shove coupler off shift rod
-CV joints

Good luck. We're all counting on you.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RMoH55T-oI
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Old 06-15-2016, 08:18 AM
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If there's pitting in the cam lobes there's also pitting and wear in the rocker arm pads and probably clogged cam spray bar holes. Very common in 930's because of burnt coked oil particals the size of ground pepper coming from inside the turbo bearing housing.

If you don't remove the cam towers and clean out the cam spray bars and spray bar holes then replacing cams and rockers will be a repetitive process around every 1000 to 3000 miles.
There are 3 cam spray bar holes per cylinder and you can not see two of them per cylinder without removing the cam tower.

Running full synthetic oil will reduce this common problem most people don't know exists.
Old 06-15-2016, 08:22 AM
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Thank you Master Kevin!

Checked and Double Checked.

This is my 6th time dropping her. so much easier everytime



Poop, wouldn't you know it I have to go to work :-(. Life Sucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by KTL View Post
Do a double check to be sure. There's always something we forget. Commonly forgotten items:

Up top:

-fuel injector harness plug on top of shock tower
-fuel line to pressure regulator or fuel line to top of fuel filter
-ignition coil wire
-bundle of ground wires ganged on the intake manifold runner
-O2 sensor harness plug
-three harness plugs on left side of intake manifold for two timing reference sensors and head temp. sensor
-breather hoses from oil tank to throttle body elbow and/or engine case vent
-charcoal cannister hose to back of air filter housing
-cruise control cable & vacuum hose
-PCV valve hose
-various harness plugs: idle control motor, airflow meter, throttle position sensor, etc.
-bunch of A/C stuff
-large multi-pin harness connector from engine to fuse panel on left side of engine bay
-brake booster vacuum hose

Down below:

-throttle rod female ball end socket on transmission bellcrank
-clutch cable
-transmission ground strap
-speedometer sending unit wiring
-oil scavenge line union ahead of oil tank and S-hose at oil tank
-starter (+) hot lead from battery (disconnect battery so you don't short to ground and start an unintended welding project....... )
-heat exchanger hoses
-remove rear sway bar
-remove shift rod coupler cone screw and shove coupler off shift rod
-CV joints

Good luck. We're all counting on you.........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RMoH55T-oI
__________________
'85 Carrera Targa
Factory Marble Grey/Black * Turbo Tail * 930 Steering Wheel* Sport Seats * 17" Fuchs (r) * 3.4 * 964 Cams * 915 * LSD * Factory SS * Turbo Tie Rods * Bilsteins * Euro Pre-Muff * SW Chip on 4K DME * NGK * Sienes GSK * Targa Body Brace
PCA/POC
Old 06-15-2016, 10:11 AM
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Yeap, was pondering about the oil spray ports. I really want to clean them but I really do not want to molest the boobies ( I can't believe I typed that )

I was trying to figure out how I can spray some cleaner in there and blow the ports out with compressed air???

Not liking the idea of cleaner residue going into the engine.

Dilema Dilema.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JFairman View Post
If there's pitting in the cam lobes there's also pitting and wear in the rocker arm pads and probably clogged cam spray bar holes. Very common in 930's because of burnt coked oil particals the size of ground pepper coming from inside the turbo bearing housing.

If you don't remove the cam towers and clean out the cam spray bars and spray bar holes then replacing cams and rockers will be a repetitive process around every 1000 to 3000 miles.
There are 3 cam spray bar holes per cylinder and you can not see two of them per cylinder without removing the cam tower.

Running full synthetic oil will reduce this common problem most people don't know exists.
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'85 Carrera Targa
Factory Marble Grey/Black * Turbo Tail * 930 Steering Wheel* Sport Seats * 17" Fuchs (r) * 3.4 * 964 Cams * 915 * LSD * Factory SS * Turbo Tie Rods * Bilsteins * Euro Pre-Muff * SW Chip on 4K DME * NGK * Sienes GSK * Targa Body Brace
PCA/POC
Old 06-15-2016, 10:14 AM
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Here she goes, ready to drop:



Geez, messy work area

LOL, pipe wrench to fix loose bumper strut mount, freakin PO did not put the spacer in the back
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'85 Carrera Targa
Factory Marble Grey/Black * Turbo Tail * 930 Steering Wheel* Sport Seats * 17" Fuchs (r) * 3.4 * 964 Cams * 915 * LSD * Factory SS * Turbo Tie Rods * Bilsteins * Euro Pre-Muff * SW Chip on 4K DME * NGK * Sienes GSK * Targa Body Brace
PCA/POC

Last edited by DRACO A5OG; 06-15-2016 at 10:19 AM..
Old 06-15-2016, 10:17 AM
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If they are clogged that won't work and there is no way to clear them out without removing the cam tower. Two of the holes per cylinder are not visible without removing the cam tower and looking up at the spray bar from the bottom. Don't even waste time thinking about it without removing the cam tower.

I've been through all this more than once and it really r e a l l y $ucks.
Old 06-15-2016, 10:21 AM
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I hate you , JK no really Thank you!

Okay will now ponder boobie removal. I was really trying to avoid this.
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'85 Carrera Targa
Factory Marble Grey/Black * Turbo Tail * 930 Steering Wheel* Sport Seats * 17" Fuchs (r) * 3.4 * 964 Cams * 915 * LSD * Factory SS * Turbo Tie Rods * Bilsteins * Euro Pre-Muff * SW Chip on 4K DME * NGK * Sienes GSK * Targa Body Brace
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Old 06-15-2016, 10:24 AM
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The cleaner residue won't go into the engine if you place pieces of paper towel into the valve valleys and cam journal bores. Takes a bit of patience but I think you can service the tubes in the housings with them still on the engine. Plus you don't have a turbo engine, so you're much less susceptible to coked oil debris invading the oil tubes.

You can look inside the oil tubes pretty easy with the cam housings in place. Removal of the end plugs can be done with the engine removed and sitting on the ground. Just requires a small drill bit of appropriate size to let you tap the hole (M6 metric or 10-32 SAE) and insert a screw. Place a small socket or tubing or whatever to act as a support for the screw with a nut & washer installed on it. Voila' you have yourself a tiny puller assembly to draw the plug out.

With the plug out, on both ends of the cam housing, you can look down the tube for any junk in there. Use a piece of fine solid wire or very fine hook (a fishing hook would work nice?) to probe each pinhole in the oil tube to check for junk. Looking down the tube as you probe the holes will help you see if any little chunks are pushed out of the oiling holes. Actually the most difficult oil holes to access are not the spray holes. The hard ones to access are the two middle holes that deliver oil to the two inner cam journal bores.

I would leave the tubes in place. I don't say leave them in place on account of them being difficult to remove. Taking them out is not hard. It just requires a suitable punch or drill bit to tap the tube out. Tap it out just enough to expose the end, then you can slip a something thru the large holes in the end to create a T-handle which assists in pulling out the tube. But the reason I say leave them in place is because you disturb the tight fit between the tube & housing. I think they're sealed with some sort of sealant when originally manufactured. So when you reinstall them, the disturbance of that sealant creates the potential for leakage between the bores in the housing and the tube. That leakage reduces the oil delivery to the cam journals. I've stared at the tubes & housings for a while in the past and it feels next to impossible to re-seal the tubes in the housing. so that's why I think they're best left installed and cleaned in place.

Here's some additional insight on cam housing oil tubes & the plugs. Soda blasting engine case
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Old 06-16-2016, 10:29 AM
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it is not difficult to check if the spray bars are plugged with them in place. Hook up a pressurized pump (typically used in the garden) to the oil supply going to the spray bar. Use a banjo fitting with barb for fuel hose. Use diesel or carb cleaner. Pressurize and observe spray pattern in cam housing
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Old 06-19-2016, 01:07 PM
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Dropped and Ready to Rock & Roll



A little behind schedule due to life happenings, not complaining, very blessed to say the least.
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'85 Carrera Targa
Factory Marble Grey/Black * Turbo Tail * 930 Steering Wheel* Sport Seats * 17" Fuchs (r) * 3.4 * 964 Cams * 915 * LSD * Factory SS * Turbo Tie Rods * Bilsteins * Euro Pre-Muff * SW Chip on 4K DME * NGK * Sienes GSK * Targa Body Brace
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Old 06-23-2016, 12:32 AM
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I've been through this in a 930 more than once... you will never be able to see 6 of the cam spray bar holes in each spray bar tube without removing the cam tower and then looking up from the bottom.
If you can't see them you won't even know they are there or where they are so how are you going to stick a straight or bent needle through the holes to move any possible carbon away from the hole.

That said there is a way to rinse them out to a small degree with no extra pumps or gadgets or whatever. I know because I've done it more than once.

Remove the 17mm plug from the top back end of the cam tower. The plug has a pointed thing on the end that when screwed into the cam tower goes into a small hole in the end of the tube locking it in place.

Then put a 1 or 2 foot long piece of fuel line or clear pvc hose or whatever hose available that fits snug into the threads for the 17mm plug. Put the other end of this hose through a hole in the engine tin so that end can drip into a bucket under the car.

Now start the motor and oil will be pumped through the spray bar and into the hose you inserted into the cam tower and it will run out the other end into the bucket under the car.

Shut off the motor and look at the oil collected in the bucket. You will probably see small particles of carbon the size of course ground pepper and a little larger from the spray bars that sank to the bottom of the oil in the bucket. BTDT.

Years later I rebuilt the top end of the motor and when the cam towers were off the motor I found the other spray bar holes you can not see while the cam tower is on the motor. There's 12 of them in all you will never see while the cam tower is on the motor and the motor is in the car.
Old 06-23-2016, 11:23 AM
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I don't believe you need to remove the cam tower & look at the bottom. When you remove the end plugs you can look down the tube. You can probe the unseen pin holes with a bent piece of wire or whatever and look down the tube as you're doing it. It's not easy access but it can be done.

However if someone doesn't feel like they're having success getting to the two underneath pinholes, by all means push out the oiling tube. Just be sure to reinstall at the correct orientation!

That said, I don't think coked oil bits in a clean naturally aspirated engine is even remotely the concern that it is in a turbo engine. I've futzed with about a dozen of these housings, even a couple pairs from a turbo ('78 casting date and '93 casting date), and the naturally aspirated engines didn't have any sign of burnt oil debris in them. Actually I didn't find anything in the turbo oil tubes either. But i'm not saying the turbos don't have that problem. Just saying the two sets of housings I looked at weren't contaminated.
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Old 06-24-2016, 08:09 AM
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