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-   -   Not a Rebuild - Just Rings (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/946673-not-rebuild-just-rings.html)

jamesjedi 02-19-2017 05:23 PM
Not a Rebuild - Just Rings
 
I have new rings in my early 964 engine - not a complete rebuild.

What is the procedure for seating the rings? Thanks.

Flat6pac 02-19-2017 07:26 PM
Read "break in oil" just below.
Bruce

jamesjedi 02-20-2017 04:37 AM
Thanks Bruce. I should do this:

"Vary the rpm with no full loads pulls & leakdown test after 500 miles." Yes, and do a leakdown before you first start it so you have a comparison."

jamesjedi 02-20-2017 04:40 AM
Brad Penn? What grade?

Flat6pac 02-20-2017 04:45 AM
Read about the 30 ND
Brad Penn won't seat, too slick
Bruce

jamesjedi 02-20-2017 05:16 AM
It took a little bit to figure out what 30 ND was. Thanks Bruce!

Now I need to see which brand. Thanks again. I shall do some research.

Found this (66 pages); http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/756001-break-oil-first-20-minutes-brad-penn-standard-non-detergent.html

Does it mater what brand of SAE 30? I found a local supplier with these;

BRAD PENN HIGH PERF. GREEN SAE 30

NON DETERGENT SAE 30 KENDALL

Henry Schmidt 02-20-2017 09:43 AM
I am not a fan of Brad Penn or Kendall....too much paraffin content.
I like Valvoline 30 wt non-detergent (NAPA 30wt ND id the same) followed by Delo 400.... You choose the weight that meets your temperature requirements.

jamesjedi 02-20-2017 12:02 PM
I cant say how much I appreciate the input from engine builders. Thanks!

Are you using that oil in your race cars and street cars? I understand if you do not want to answer. Thanks again.

Henry Schmidt 02-21-2017 06:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesjedi (Post 9481516)
I cant say how much I appreciate the input from engine builders. Thanks!

Are you using that oil in your race cars and street cars? I understand if you do not want to answer. Thanks again.
We're mot running a race team right now so I can't answer that question intelligently. I like Delo and would use it (and do) in everything I own but with race cars there is always a question of sponsors and loyalties.

I also run Supertec SpeedLube in all my vehicles. I use Supertec assembly when assembling all our engines. These formulations we're specifically designed to replace ZDDP and fortify all types of metals subjected to the excessive heat seen in air-cooled engines.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1487691149.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1487691149.jpg

We caution against using SpeedLube Bearing Life in a newly assembled engine.

jamesjedi 02-21-2017 08:06 AM
Thanks Henry. Always excellent to here from someone who does it for a living.

DRACO A5OG 02-21-2017 10:26 AM
Caution, ND ( Non-Detergent ) is the key for break in. Read the label as NAPA also carries the Detergent added 30W as well.

Do a leak down to get a base reading and 500 miles later another, if good swap to the usual suspect

jamesjedi 02-21-2017 12:18 PM
I will get it from Napa, thanks for the "heads up". The price is good, which is a nice change.

I will do the leak down test.

bpu699 02-21-2017 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesjedi (Post 9480419)
I have new rings in my early 964 engine - not a complete rebuild.

What is the procedure for seating the rings? Thanks.
Curious what your approach was. Did you disassemble the motor and just change the rings?

I always wondered if one could do a cheap down and dirty engine refresh by just doing rings and bearings...

Of course not as good as a complete rebuild... But better than worn out? With the price of a full rebuild nearing 25k$, it's out of reach for most...

They did it on Chevies all the time...

I know. Blasphemy...

Tippy 02-21-2017 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 9483184)
Curious what your approach was. Did you disassemble the motor and just change the rings?

I always wondered if one could do a cheap down and dirty engine refresh by just doing rings and bearings...

Of course not as good as a complete rebuild... But better than worn out? With the price of a full rebuild nearing 25k$, it's out of reach for most...

They did it on Chevies all the time...

I know. Blasphemy...
I used to be a jet mechanic. If the part checked out, we used it (of course there's a lot of inspection done to validate).

I see people here who replace things needlessly.

The 911 engine, IMO, is one of the most robust motors. There are a lot of parts that don't need replacing. I tossed the main bearings from my motor, but kept questioning why. They looked pristine. Even the rod bearings were near brand new looking.

The one set of bearings that are a must are the IMS. Those show wear really early on.

bpu699 02-21-2017 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tippy (Post 9483295)
I used to be a jet mechanic. If the part checked out, we used it (of course there's a lot of inspection done to validate).

I see people here who replace things needlessly.

The 911 engine, IMO, is one of the most robust motors. There are a lot of parts that don't need replacing. I tossed the main bearings from my motor, but kept questioning why. They looked pristine. Even the rod bearings were near brand new looking.

The one set of bearings that are a must are the IMS. Those show wear really early on.
Great to hear, in case I ever decide to go down this road...

Did you have line bore, or skim the block or heads? Or, did it all go back together well?

jamesjedi 02-22-2017 08:02 AM
My engine is a very low mileage engine that has Raceware Rod bolt and head studs. Cup cams, slightly modified intake. The cylinder heads are also new. The PO disassembled the P's and C's to install lower compression pistons and a Ruf turbo charger. He lost interest in his project.

When l bought it, he reinstalled the original Pistons and gave it new rings. He did race this motor in the One Lap of America. Hopefully it will run as well for me as it did for him.

Tippy 02-22-2017 09:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpu699 (Post 9483315)
Did you have line bore, or skim the block or heads? Or, did it all go back together well?
I PM'd you

Tippy 02-22-2017 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by afterburn 549 (Post 9483905)
Tippy
I know you know most everything in / on a aircraft is rented, a bunch of parts with the eviction hour written on it.
With the Porsche, one guy will go several races, the next guy will go 200K
With the AC engine,- there are parameters to stay within so as not to burn it dwn B4 TBO
With the IC engine and single ownership, we do what we will.
There is no NAZI standing over us.
Next the BIG caveat- It is a slippery slope to open a P Car engine and hope its just rings!
If the rings are shot, I will have to guess there are a bunch of other worn areas.
Cylinder walls ?
valve job?
Chains and gears?
Measure pistons and ring lands (lots people forget that one)
ETC
The above is just my opinion as I dabble in AC too
Absolutely. Not saying you can just rering and go. But, the low end of a 911 motor is far more robust than any commuter car out there from my experience. Hence reason many will simply do a top-end job or throw bigger P&C's on an untouched bottom end and carry on with pride.

When my heads were getting rebuilt, cgarr found that my intake guides were in spec. We agreed to leave them alone. What would one gain by replacing them? That's what I am referring to.

Tippy 02-22-2017 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesjedi (Post 9483984)
My engine is a very low mileage engine that has Raceware Rod bolt and head studs. Cup cams, slightly modified intake. The cylinder heads are also new. The PO disassembled the P's and C's to install lower compression pistons and a Ruf turbo charger. He lost interest in his project.

When l bought it, he reinstalled the original Pistons and gave it new rings. He did race this motor in the One Lap of America. Hopefully it will run as well for me as it did for him.
Sounds like you will be fine.


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