Newbie '73T 2.4 MFI Engine Rebuild

[cmcfaul]

you could have bought a hardware kit. All the nuts, bolts, washers, etc brand new.

Chris
73 E

[47silver]

i was not aware of that kit, wished i would have known.

[Inkblot]

@Chris Where's the fun in that?

Actually, I did buy a hardware kit, and it has all the basics- washers, lock nuts, etc... but it didn't come with any of the more special bits. The parts that really started me on the plating path were the case through bolts; a new set of those with their washers is around $800 iirc, so cleaning up and re-plating my original ones seemed like a good idea. As the plating shop has a minimum order size, I just threw in a bunch of other hardware. I never really planned on re-plating the easily replaceable stuff- and I like the idea of new hardware, especially for things like lock washers, crush washers and other things like that which may have been overly deformed or stressed over time.

To me, it's all a balance... and part of getting that right is learning about the pain and/or expense of the different options. I'm trying to keep this ride mostly original, so I like the idea of reusing as much as I can; but obviously (and to your point) hand cleaning and plating every old washer on the car wouldn't make sense. So, I guess I'm just trying to find the sweet spot between all new stuff and all old stuff!

I gather that a lot of the hardware we can buy today, while functionally sound, might not have the same original plating. So for anyone who has to have 100% correct colors for each nut and bolt (and that's not me...) then re-plating is the only option. For example, Jpnovak mentioned in the DIY plating thread that he buys a lot of new bulk hardware in clear zinc for cheap then re-plates it to whatever he wants:

Originally Posted by jpnovak

Better living through chemistry.

I plate a lot of hardware. I buy clear zinc coated (cheap) in bulk and then use the Caswell Chromate materials and process to color them. It is pretty simple.
...

Anyway, as usual, there's always more than one right way to do things.

-Jake

[Inkblot]

Finally, I'm ready to seal up the case. I've got all the hardware ready to go, the goops I've chosen to use are ready, and I've run through the procedure a few times to make sure I'm not missing anything. I've got a fair bit of apprehension, having never done this before- but I'm as ready as I can be. Nuthin' to do but go forward!

Here's everything prepped:










But wait! I had a last minute panic about the oil bypass mod. I'm running a Glenn Yee modified oil pump, which requires the bypass mod. I was pretty sure that I had my case appropriately modded by Ted, but that was a while ago; I had to make sure. That took me down another rabbit hole for a while, but, sure enough my case was good to go. Here's a pic- you can see the new silvery plug, with the smaller passageway just to the side of it:




Enough distractions, let's do this... I started with the Threebond 1211 on the #8 bearing saddle. This had to be first, so that I could set the crank into the case half. There's a lot of debate on the best way to do this, and certainly more than one way to make it work. I decided to go with Henry Schmidt's recommendation to coat the saddle with finger-wipe of the 1211. Others have gooped the 1211 onto the o-ring itself, while Wayne's book doesn't call for any sealant on the bearing itself (though does recommend Curil around the inner bearing gasket seal). Anyway, I tried to avoid the oil journal while getting thin coat around it.




Here's the crank, oil pump and ims placed into the case. I checked to make sure that everything was turning freely. I rocked the ims drive gear back and forth to check the backlash, and got a nice clicking sound out of it indicating that it wasn't too tight or too loose.




My sheet metal pieces worked well to hold the rods, but the piece I made for the chain was pretty flimsy. A few rubber bands helped.




Next, I'll get the sealant on to the case half and stick 'em together.

[Inkblot]

I decided that putting the case sealant on to the left half (not the half mounted to the stand) made more sense, as it's way easier to apply; you don't have to negotiate around all of the studs. Lots of threads on this topic- no obvious downside that I could find.

Also, lots of debate out there about whether or not to put sealant onto the bearing saddles. Factory didn't do it, so that's a strong argument. Also, there's a risk that sealant on the bearing saddles could force the bearing journals out of round, which would be bad... On the other side of the argument is that high performance engines often shuffle-pin the saddles to prevent "chatter", suggesting that adding some shear strength here would be a good thing. Anyway, not saying it's right or wrong, but I decided that a super-thin coat of Loctite 574 on the saddles was a good idea. Personally, I can't see how that would deform my bearing journals into ovals, and if I get some shear strength out of it, then great.

So, the 574 goes on first, as it's anaerobic and I don't have to worry about the set up time. Here I'm applying it; keeping it super thin, and wiping away any excess.





Next, I put another skim coat of 1211 on the #8 bearing journal.

Then, on to the perimeter, where I used Threebond 1184. I squeezed out a medium sized bead all the way around. Here you can see the 1184 bead in light grey, the 1211 in white, and the 574 in orange (and assembly lube in dark grey).




At this point the clock is ticking, so I quickly smoothed out the 1184 with my finger. Turns out I had more than enough sealant; as I smoothed it out I ended up removing a fair bit of it. Here it's looking pretty good:




There were a few spots where I had a lot of spillover, so some quick work with alcohol wipes was required.







Nice! Let's slap it together!

[Inkblot]

Lowering the case half with the sealant on it down onto the other half wasn't difficult. I found that practice really helped here (pre-sealant, of course...). I had the timing chain positioned how I wanted it, and knew right where to look for proper alignment. No problems!




Here you can see that, even with a little pressure, the case halves don't naturally touch. I think this is because of the o-rings on the oil pump; they need a little force to fully compress into place. Here you can see the gap, before I started to tighten any hardware.




From here it's just a matter of working quickly to get all the hardware in place and tightened down. I followed the order in Wayne's book, which calls for hand tightening everything first, then torquing the through bolts in an inside-out kinda order, followed by the perimeter bolts. I was sweatin' at this point, not really sure of how much working time I had left- but after double- and triple-checking that I hadn't forgotten any nuts or bolts I called it good.




Here are some pics of the seam and squeeze out.












I realized that I put the through bolts on "backwards", at least relative to the pics in Wayne's book (he's got the round nuts on the right side of the case). Does this matter? I'm going to re-do them anyway, as I haven't put the green Viton o-rings on yet. My plan was to torque the through bolts, let the sealant set, then go back one by one to remove each bolt and seat the o-rings with some Dow 111.




Here's a good view of the case seam; alignment looks good, no offset.




From start to finish, it took me about 3 hours. Back at it tomorrow.

-Jake

[Jonny042]

Congrats! It's a big step, and a good feeling.

If you're like me your workbench is starting to look a little less cluttered, as a bonus!

I decided against 574 on the bearing parting surfaces - very seriously considered it though. If I had done it, I would have used a similar (minimal) amount as you did.

Good job all around!

[Neil Harvey]

Way too....oooo much glue!!!!

Some photos show its drained down on the inside of the case. This will end up in the pump and could block some oil passages. If you look how much has oozed out on the outside, the same is probably on the inside.

If the parting faces are flat and lapped, you should not even need glue. But we do use glue "just in case". But all you need is a few microns thick. The glue is there to take up any minor divots etc on the parting faces. Once you bolt the two halves together, you squeeze out most of the glue, on the inside as well as the outside.

As for the glue on the bearing caps? What leaks are you trying to stop from happening there? The through bolts? This is why there are O rings on the through passages? Don't do it as its un necessary.

Advice to many here. Use the whatever glue you choose sparingly. Its about sealing off any chance of leaks. But that is done before any glue is applied. Its done in your prep before you even consider assembly the engine. Adding all this glue is a mind fake, and nothing about making sure no leaks occur.

[Inkblot]

@Neil:

Originally Posted by Neil Harvey

Adding all this glue is a mind fake...

Yeah, it really is. Every step of the way, especially with the case perimeter, a little voice in the back of my head was saying "too much glue is better than not enough...". This is the mind fake, which clearly leads to overdoing it (especially when inexperienced, like me).

Originally Posted by Neil Harvey

As for the glue on the bearing caps? What leaks are you trying to stop from happening there?

Do you mean the orange-ish Locatite 574? If so, I was following Henry Schmidt's recommendation of a skim coat to add shear strength to the bearing saddles... I gather it's a cheap way to provide some protection against "chatter" (one saddle moving ever so slightly relative to its mate), in the same manner as adding shuffle pins would. Definitely not trying to seal the through bolts there.

Originally Posted by Neil Harvey

Some photos show its drained down on the inside of the case. This will end up in the pump and could block some oil passages.

Yeah, I'd have to imagine that there are a few spots like this. Now I just need to judge the risk of leaving it vs. the effort to redo it! Now's the time, though, before I do any more work...
Sounds like you'd vote for redoing it... how big of risk do you think the excess squeeze out inside the case presents? I've read others suggesting that sealant isn't a big threat; if it gets washed off by oil, it'll likely fall to the bottom of the sump, get minced up by the oil pump gears, and/or caught by the oil filter.

Maybe the community would benefit from my taking it apart, and taking some pictures to see what the squeeze out inside the case looks like? I'll think on it...

Thanks for the feedback, as always.

Jake

[Jonny042]

I think you can relax.

I used 1184 on my case perimeter a few days ago - I spent a lot of time cleaning my case halves (including removing the studs) and was confident that (as Neil points out) it would seal, theoretically, with no sealant at all. Because of this I used much less 1184 and subsequently have much less squeeze-out than yours, but still don't think you have so much that it's a re-do.

Although I wanted to avoid squeeze out, I have no way to confirm on the inside of the case how much there may be, other than to assume it matches the outside.

Should you take it apart? I'm not so sure. Maybe wait a few days and get a feeling for how strong the sealant is? I get the feeling it's pretty tough, and not going to go anywhere. It IS supposed to be resistant to oil so honestly I don't think you have to worry. I'll have a look tomorrow and give you my thoughts, after it's had a few days to cure. I can't remember when it reaches full strength but that information is on the threebond website.

Even if a piece of the squeeze-out ended up in the bottom of the case and got through the screen, it would end up going through the filter, anyway.

[Inkblot]

Thanks, @Jonny. I'm really on the fence about it. I had a pro mechanic look at it today (not a Porsche guy, though...) and he said don't worry about it.

I'm also quite cognizant of being that guy who asks for advice then ignores it I hate it when people do that to me!

Anyway, still stewing on it...

Jake

[Inkblot]

F' it, let's crack this sucker back open! A little extra work to settle some doubt can't hurt...

First step, loosen all the bolts. Interestingly, I noticed a fair bit of shrapnel as I removed the through bolts.





Upon closer look, it appears to be the fresh plating scraping off of my through-bolt washers. A little disconcerting, but as long as it all stays outside the case it oughtta be ok. I'll make sure to clean these bolts thoroughly before reinstalling.

A few whacks and it's coming apart.





The 1184 around the perimeter clearly hadn't cured all the way (it's been about 48 hours). Not sure if this will make the clean up easier or harder, but no turning back now.

Ok, case half removed, let's take a look:










Looks like I has a little heavy with the sealant, but nothing too crazy. There are a couple of big-ish globs in there.






But wait! I did find an issue...

[Inkblot]

Here's a problem:



I forgot to bend the locking washers into place around the oil pump!

So, even if I didn't really need to re-split the case for the excess sealant, I'm glad I did.

Here are some more pics of the sealants, for the archives:












...and some looks at the 1211 around the #8 bearing:







All in all, I gotta believe the sealants woulda been ok. That said, I'll definitely go lighter next time around. Hopefully this will help some of y'all in the future!

Now I've got some more cleaning to look forward to.

- Jake

[Neil Harvey]

Good job. Proud of you for taking the time to do this. Its easy for others to say it would be ok, but you are the one that has to live with mind "f..ing" yourself, will it be ok.

In my opinion, it would not have been. You do not need any piece of the sealant to clog any oil galley. You hope it all gets caught in the filter.

This time apply the sealant microns thick, not inches. Do not put anything on the main webs. leave them dry. Just make sure the parting faces are flat, no divots and if in doubt, now is the time to remove the perimeter studs and lap the faces.

Remove the tabs that hold the oil pump nuts too. Yes, remove them. Make sure the threads on the studs are in good condition and the nuts are good or new. If you like, put a tiny bit of red loctite on the threads. Then torque the nuts to 18 ft/lbs. They will not come loose. We never use those tab thing'ys. If you think about it, the nuts holding the rod bolts tight are under more stress than the oil pump nuts.

Make sure when you install the pump again that after torqueing down the nuts the coupler shaft is free to move back and forth. If not reposition the pump and try again.

Go slow and be methodical. Ask if you are not sure.

Great job. We have a saying here at my business. If something makes you uncomfortable and continues to do so, regarding any sort of assembly procedure, it will almost always rear its ugly head and bite you hard. There is no place in this business for risk taking. Its either right or wrong.

[Jonny042]

Very interesting - thanks for sharing the pics!

Like Neil said, great job - what better way to insure you're getting the results you want, than going back and checking like that. You've learned more that 100 hours of reading forum posts, and able to get real feedback on your process, with your own eyes.

So, time well spent.

In my opinion the 1184 would have been alright, PROBABLY..... one or two blobs look threatening. Interesting how much thickness remains in places of the parting surfaces of the case, where other places it's squeezed out completely - the mag cases obviously need the sealant a lot more than the aluminum ones.

The 1211 looks like it was a bit much, with the squeeze-out to the inside of #8 - I went lighter and concentrate it to the outside.

The 574 still leaves me conflicted. It looks like it squeezed out well enough that main clearances wouldn't have been affected (much"), are you able to judge that at all? Opinion seems to be split, even among experienced builders. The factory says "no".... If I had a mag case motor I'd be tempted.

[ed mayo]

You have the case thru bolts installed correctly, they come in from the 4-5-6 side. There is a slight difference in the case hole diameter to account for the o ring on the shoulder of the thru bolt versus the o ring on the nut end is on a narrower diameter of the bolt. Every picture in the shop manual shows this direction.

[Inkblot]

Thanks, all.

@Neil Your comments are much appreciated. It was a pretty easy decision; though I'd lose some momentum, the time to re-open the case is peanuts relative to the total amount of time that I'll have in this project. The old line "If there is any doubt, then there is no doubt" held true here. In my professional life we'd call this technical debt; you might not have to pay today, but you will have to pay... plus a lotta interest! Good tip on the oil pump locking tabs.

@Jonny:

Originally Posted by Jonny042

Interesting how much thickness remains in places of the parting surfaces of the case, where other places it's squeezed out completely

The pics are deceptive, because it's hard to compare the same location on both sides of the case. I think a lot of the spots where it looks like it was squeezed out completely are actually just places where the sealant (which wasn't fully cured) was just pulled off by the other side of the case. Hard to tell... but, to your point, I agree that the sealant does have a role to play!

Good idea re. the 1211; I'll go lighter and pull it more away from the inside.

I'm still conflicted on the 574 for the main bearing saddles. I hear Neil saying I don't need it (reinforced by the factory practice of leaving them dry), countered by Henry Schmidt's recommendation to do it as a "why not" kinda protection. In my own mind it's hard for me to see a downside (assuming an ultra-thin coat). To your question, no- I can't really judge if my application of the 574 would have changed any of the clearances. I can say that, while cleaning everything up, in a few places I was able to peel off a translucent "skin" of dried 574. Really tough to know if this was because the 574 didn't squeeze out and created a tiny gap (bad), or if there already was a tiny clearance between the bearing saddle surfaces which the 574 then filled (better). Still thinking on it.


@Ed: Thanks! I should have referenced the shop manuals before asking. For whatever reason I'm always slow do dig into the manuals (probably because I have them as PDFs, and they're hard to search...). Here's a pic, which confirms what you're saying:



...and the pic from Wayne's book which mislead me!




Anyway, as someone wise said somewhere in this forum, Wayne's book is a great book, but it's not the only book...

[Inkblot]

Here I'm cleaning up the case (again). A combination of acetone and mechanical scraping seemed to yield the best results (though I don't think there's any getting around this job being a PITA). The acetone did best where the sealant was still clearly uncured. I tried to carefully use a razor blade in a few spots, which worked well, but I noticed that it was too easy for me to potentially scratch the case, so I stuck to plastic scrapers.

I will say that the big globs of squeezed-out sealant that I had on the inside of the case were NOT easy to remove. It's hard for me to imagine those things somehow coming loose and then interfering with the oil system... but, still better to have none at all!








Jake

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by Inkblot

Thanks, all.

...and the pic from Wayne's book which mislead me!




Anyway, as someone wise said somewhere in this forum, Wayne's book is a great book, but it's not the only book...

WHAT!!!??? Crap.

Anyone know if this makes any real world difference on a late model case?

I've got mine installed according to Wayne's Book.........

Just installed my cylinders last night. &^%^&$$.

[356RS]

Glad you made the move to open it back up and re-seal. The #1 bearing looks like it received a fare amount of sealant in the oil groove.