Mahle vs JE

[MST0118]

You’re correct that we were talking forged pistons. I was just curious if the composition of the aluminum alloy relating to the cylinders was similar to that.

[Trackrash]

Thanks for the clarification. I was confused, too many threads here.

So M142 is one of those new super alloys?

[lvporschepilot]

Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel

Mahle uses M142. It is on all of their drawings.
Si 11-13%
Cu 2.5-4.0%
Ni 1.75-3.00%
Mg 0.8-1.2%
Fe <= 0.7%
Zn <= 0.3%
Mn <= 0.3%
Other <= 0.2%
Bal Al
M142 offers the dimensional stability of 4032 and the fatigue characteristics of 2618.
Mahle spends 60 Million a year on materials R&D.

That is incredibly accurate! Love it. Same stuff used in their F1 pistons I'm sure.

[Trackrash]

As a side note this article states that M142 is use for CAST Corvette pistons.

Amazing how metallurgy has advanced in the last few years.

https://books.google.com/books?id=pG1cD2F_iJcC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=m142+aluminum&source=bl&ots=QNE4TFdsC-&sig=EUZaJPZ-YWaIQ6wYkbMSyFxTvp0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi9nobO44vdAhVi7YMKHWElC90Q6AEwAnoECAAQA Q#v=onepage&q=m142%20aluminum&f=false

[Trackrash]

Here is an article that states "Trey McFarland, the sales/marketing manager of MAHLE Motorsport in Fletcher, North Carolina, says his company is bringing a new aluminum alloy, M142, to the performance aftermarket." dated 2015. https://theshopmag.com/features/choosing-right-pistons-rings

[Lapkritis]

Pistons are as important as the builder. I cringe at the sharp edges on the dome when they're dropped in without fine finishing even with tbc regardless of manufacturer.

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[rennzeit]

Originally Posted by lvporschepilot

I have not run the coated skirt but just make extra certain the wall clearances are indeed correct with the coating.

Don't blindly listen to random posts like the above. Read the information you get with your pistons. The skirt coatings may be spec'd to not be included in the clearance measurement. Some manufacturers are even leaving a spot uncoated on the skirt where the measurement should take place.

[AKAOtherMick]

My Hobart Gas drive welder with a Kohler K17 series 2 motor uses Mahle pistons as supplied from the factory, air cooled flat head twin with forged Mahle pistons, maybe JE will get into that market too, LOL!

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by MST0118

Good info. I am curious if the Mahle cylinders are also made of 142 alloys which might indicate that Mahle pistons are better matched with Mahle cylinders as compared to LN nickies cylinders to get closer tolerances or is that a flawed assumption?

I’ve seen posts where LN cylinders match JE pistons and CP pistons well but not sure if the same is true for Mahle pistons w/ nickies?

We tested the factory Mahle cylinders many years ago and I believe the lab stated it was 335-0 AL casting alloy.

The alloy used in Nickies is best suited for the 2618 alloy, but we have been working with Mahle Motorsports to provide matched combos using their proprietary alloys, as they are unable to get cylinders out of Mahle due to lack of demand and the low volumes that make it costly to support the Porsche aftermarket. We introduced last December 5 old MM part numbers sold through SSF Auto Parts and IMC, who market to shops.

We're currently seeking input on which NLA kits they would like re-introduced, with obvious revisions in the design to take advantage of improvements in piston design and manufacture.

I've been very happy with Mahle Motorsports and they put out a piston that is second to none, not saying that JE and CP don't make a good piston, but the Mahle parts are just that bit better (but much more expensive)

[Neil Harvey]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

We tested the factory Mahle cylinders many years ago and I believe the lab stated it was 335-0 AL casting alloy.

The alloy used in Nickies is best suited for the 2618 alloy, but we have been working with Mahle Motorsports to provide matched combos using their proprietary alloys, as they are unable to get cylinders out of Mahle due to lack of demand and the low volumes that make it costly to support the Porsche aftermarket. We introduced last December 5 old MM part numbers sold through SSF Auto Parts and IMC, who market to shops.

We're currently seeking input on which NLA kits they would like re-introduced, with obvious revisions in the design to take advantage of improvements in piston design and manufacture.

I've been very happy with Mahle Motorsports and they put out a piston that is second to none, not saying that JE and CP don't make a good piston, but the Mahle parts are just that bit better (but much more expensive)

We call it the X factor. Rolex or Timex. You chose the quality you wish to use based upon the budget available.

[cnavarro]

Originally Posted by Neil Harvey

We call it the X factor. Rolex or Timex. You chose the quality you wish to use based upon the budget available.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You can have a cheap piston and expensive piston from the same company. It's all in how you order it.

I just made a set of pistons for a custom build with .7/.7/2.0 rings that cost me almost $700 for one set. Just the rings. And some sets cost less than $100 for the same bore and application in a 1.0/1.2/2.0 size. You get what you pay for.

[lvporschepilot]

Originally Posted by cnavarro

Couldn't have said it better myself.

You can have a cheap piston and expensive piston from the same company. It's all in how you order it.

I just made a set of pistons for a custom build with .7/.7/2.0 rings that cost me almost $700 for one set. Just the rings. And some sets cost less than $100 for the same bore and application in a 1.0/1.2/2.0 size. You get what you pay for.

Those are some seriously thin rings. Gone are the days of the 5mm oil control rings with 22lbs of pressure so many of the old Ferrari motors ran..... it was the dark ages.

[stanglife]

Another olllld thread bump. @cnavarro - I ended up with your 3.6-3.9 JE setup at 12.5:1 - and I realize now that this will be a street only setup, so the 12.5 need to go. I know I can get the 11.4 mahle pistons from you guys in 2618 to match these cylinders...but I've also been looking closely at the Mahle rsr 3.6-3.8 package for 109mm case in 4032. I know you "should" be biased towards the Nickies - but for a strong running street car that I'd like to actually put some miles on - what is the ideal move here? Which combo has the most up to date piston design? Cost will probably be somewhat of a wash.

Thanks!

[Rosco_NZ]

JE’s can be custom ordered in 4032, I’ve done so for my 2.7RS+ engine. And they do not appear to require the 2.4 head to be chamfered as the piston crown does not extend from the edge of the piston. I’ve ordered these in custom 24cc 10:1CR which after fly cut heads resulting in 66.5cc heads and 1.1 mm PtoH clearance gives 10.2:1 static compression. Should work out OK on 98 or 100 RON.

[Dpmulvan]

Top fuel dragster pistons are cheaper with 2 extra. I don’t buy the supply/ demand deal. We are getting screwed ( Porsche Tax).

[stanglife]

Originally Posted by Rosco_NZ

JE’s can be custom ordered in 4032, I’ve done so for my 2.7RS+ engine. And they do not appear to require the 2.4 head to be chamfered as the piston crown does not extend from the edge of the piston. I’ve ordered these in custom 24cc 10:1CR which after fly cut heads resulting in 66.5cc heads and 1.1 mm PtoH clearance gives 10.2:1 static compression. Should work out OK on 98 or 100 RON.

I already have the cylinders - and I would only follow LN guidance - only 2 pistons supported in this particular setup and they are both 2618.

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

Top fuel dragster pistons are cheaper with 2 extra. I don’t buy the supply/ demand deal. We are getting screwed ( Porsche Tax).

Great point

[Rosco_NZ]

Originally Posted by stanglife

I already have the cylinders - and I would only follow LN guidance - only 2 pistons supported in this particular setup and they are both 2618.



Great point

LN like many suppliers offer off the shelf ready to go parts .. all JE off the shelf pistons are 2618 .. doesn’t mean it’s the only option out there. 2618 pistons are not known for longevity in a road engine, despite the latest skirt coating making them quieter with their wider cold clearances than 4032. Custom spec pistons are easily specified and ordered with little extra cost for those who care to research.

[Mikeyy]

You can have a cheap piston and expensive piston from the same company. It's all in how you order it.