Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > Porsche Forums > 911 Engine Rebuilding Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lafayette, CA
Posts: 754
Garage
You’re correct that we were talking forged pistons. I was just curious if the composition of the aluminum alloy relating to the cylinders was similar to that.
Old 08-26-2018, 02:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #61 (permalink)
Under the radar
 
Trackrash's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sebastopol, the land of wine and redwoods in The Republic of California.
Posts: 5,019
Garage
Thanks for the clarification. I was confused, too many threads here.

So M142 is one of those new super alloys?
__________________
Gordon
___________________________________
'71 911 Coupe 3,0L outlawed
#56 PCA Redwood Region, GGR, NASA, Speed SF
Trackrash's Garage :: My Garage
Old 08-26-2018, 03:41 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #62 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Squirrel View Post
Mahle uses M142. It is on all of their drawings.
Si 11-13%
Cu 2.5-4.0%
Ni 1.75-3.00%
Mg 0.8-1.2%
Fe <= 0.7%
Zn <= 0.3%
Mn <= 0.3%
Other <= 0.2%
Bal Al
M142 offers the dimensional stability of 4032 and the fatigue characteristics of 2618.
Mahle spends 60 Million a year on materials R&D.
That is incredibly accurate! Love it. Same stuff used in their F1 pistons I'm sure.
__________________
No physical quantity completely explains its own existence
Old 08-27-2018, 06:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #63 (permalink)
Under the radar
 
Trackrash's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sebastopol, the land of wine and redwoods in The Republic of California.
Posts: 5,019
Garage
As a side note this article states that M142 is use for CAST Corvette pistons.

Amazing how metallurgy has advanced in the last few years.

https://books.google.com/books?id=pG1cD2F_iJcC&pg=PA80&lpg=PA80&dq=m142+aluminum&source=bl&ots=QNE4TFdsC-&sig=EUZaJPZ-YWaIQ6wYkbMSyFxTvp0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi9nobO44vdAhVi7YMKHWElC90Q6AEwAnoECAAQA Q#v=onepage&q=m142%20aluminum&f=false
__________________
Gordon
___________________________________
'71 911 Coupe 3,0L outlawed
#56 PCA Redwood Region, GGR, NASA, Speed SF
Trackrash's Garage :: My Garage
Old 08-27-2018, 09:48 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #64 (permalink)
Under the radar
 
Trackrash's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sebastopol, the land of wine and redwoods in The Republic of California.
Posts: 5,019
Garage
Here is an article that states "Trey McFarland, the sales/marketing manager of MAHLE Motorsport in Fletcher, North Carolina, says his company is bringing a new aluminum alloy, M142, to the performance aftermarket." dated 2015. https://theshopmag.com/features/choosing-right-pistons-rings
__________________
Gordon
___________________________________
'71 911 Coupe 3,0L outlawed
#56 PCA Redwood Region, GGR, NASA, Speed SF
Trackrash's Garage :: My Garage

Last edited by Trackrash; 08-29-2018 at 11:48 AM..
Old 08-27-2018, 10:08 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #65 (permalink)
Straight shooter
 
Lapkritis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Vilnius
Posts: 3,062
Garage
Pistons are as important as the builder. I cringe at the sharp edges on the dome when they're dropped in without fine finishing even with tbc regardless of manufacturer.

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk
__________________
Of the value traps, the most widespread and pernicious is value rigidity. This is an inability to revalue what one sees because of commitment to previous values. In motorcycle maintenance, you MUST rediscover what you do as you go. Rigid values makes this impossible.
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values
Old 08-29-2018, 10:14 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #66 (permalink)
 
formerly dug@project914
 
rennzeit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 668
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvporschepilot View Post
I have not run the coated skirt but just make extra certain the wall clearances are indeed correct with the coating.
Don't blindly listen to random posts like the above. Read the information you get with your pistons. The skirt coatings may be spec'd to not be included in the clearance measurement. Some manufacturers are even leaving a spot uncoated on the skirt where the measurement should take place.
__________________
1973 914-6 MetalCraft Racing C-Prod/TransAm/IMSA history
Old 09-01-2018, 03:15 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #67 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 1
My Hobart Gas drive welder with a Kohler K17 series 2 motor uses Mahle pistons as supplied from the factory, air cooled flat head twin with forged Mahle pistons, maybe JE will get into that market too, LOL!
Old 09-20-2018, 06:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #68 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by MST0118 View Post
Good info. I am curious if the Mahle cylinders are also made of 142 alloys which might indicate that Mahle pistons are better matched with Mahle cylinders as compared to LN nickies cylinders to get closer tolerances or is that a flawed assumption?

Ive seen posts where LN cylinders match JE pistons and CP pistons well but not sure if the same is true for Mahle pistons w/ nickies?
We tested the factory Mahle cylinders many years ago and I believe the lab stated it was 335-0 AL casting alloy.

The alloy used in Nickies is best suited for the 2618 alloy, but we have been working with Mahle Motorsports to provide matched combos using their proprietary alloys, as they are unable to get cylinders out of Mahle due to lack of demand and the low volumes that make it costly to support the Porsche aftermarket. We introduced last December 5 old MM part numbers sold through SSF Auto Parts and IMC, who market to shops.

We're currently seeking input on which NLA kits they would like re-introduced, with obvious revisions in the design to take advantage of improvements in piston design and manufacture.

I've been very happy with Mahle Motorsports and they put out a piston that is second to none, not saying that JE and CP don't make a good piston, but the Mahle parts are just that bit better (but much more expensive)
__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 09-25-2018, 01:46 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #69 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnavarro View Post
We tested the factory Mahle cylinders many years ago and I believe the lab stated it was 335-0 AL casting alloy.

The alloy used in Nickies is best suited for the 2618 alloy, but we have been working with Mahle Motorsports to provide matched combos using their proprietary alloys, as they are unable to get cylinders out of Mahle due to lack of demand and the low volumes that make it costly to support the Porsche aftermarket. We introduced last December 5 old MM part numbers sold through SSF Auto Parts and IMC, who market to shops.

We're currently seeking input on which NLA kits they would like re-introduced, with obvious revisions in the design to take advantage of improvements in piston design and manufacture.

I've been very happy with Mahle Motorsports and they put out a piston that is second to none, not saying that JE and CP don't make a good piston, but the Mahle parts are just that bit better (but much more expensive)
We call it the X factor. Rolex or Timex. You chose the quality you wish to use based upon the budget available.
Old 09-25-2018, 03:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #70 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Momence, IL 60954
Posts: 1,852
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Harvey View Post
We call it the X factor. Rolex or Timex. You chose the quality you wish to use based upon the budget available.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

You can have a cheap piston and expensive piston from the same company. It's all in how you order it.

I just made a set of pistons for a custom build with .7/.7/2.0 rings that cost me almost $700 for one set. Just the rings. And some sets cost less than $100 for the same bore and application in a 1.0/1.2/2.0 size. You get what you pay for.
__________________
Charles Navarro
President, LN Engineering and Bilt Racing Service
http://www.LNengineering.com
Home of Nickies, IMS Retrofit, and IMS Solution
Old 09-25-2018, 05:16 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #71 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnavarro View Post
Couldn't have said it better myself.

You can have a cheap piston and expensive piston from the same company. It's all in how you order it.

I just made a set of pistons for a custom build with .7/.7/2.0 rings that cost me almost $700 for one set. Just the rings. And some sets cost less than $100 for the same bore and application in a 1.0/1.2/2.0 size. You get what you pay for.
Those are some seriously thin rings. Gone are the days of the 5mm oil control rings with 22lbs of pressure so many of the old Ferrari motors ran..... it was the dark ages.
__________________
No physical quantity completely explains its own existence
Old 09-26-2018, 06:10 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #72 (permalink)
Reply

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 05:44 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.