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Advice on an '87 3.2 120K mile rebuild

I started a basic valve adjustment on my 3.2 and found some extra parts under the lower valve covers (on my birfday no less...). A broken head stud and a nut tumbling around. I am talking myself into doing the rebuild; I have experience rebuilding high performance 2 stroke PWC motors and have done some work on automotive motors over the years, but this will be a first for me. The broken stud is only about 3 inches long, so hopefully I will be able to get it and all of it's brothers and sisters out successfully. I have no desire to split the cases.

The engine/car has approximately 120K miles on it. While I'm in there I know that I will be sending the heads off to a machine shop for a rebuild, would it be worth it to have the heads flow ported? Is there anything else I should do while I'm in there? Cams, timing chain, chain ramps, piston rings? I've already done the fuel lines (except for the one in the rear that connect to the hard return line) and plan on using ARP or Raceware studs.

Thanks in Advance,

Bob


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Old 02-05-2018, 02:27 PM
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For a street car, the factory steel are sufficient.
Aftermarket, look at Supertec with the fine threads on the outside for better torque adjustment.
Do the chain ramps, rings on the pistons with a top end could be too much on the old bottom end bearings.
Bruce

Last edited by Flat6pac; 02-05-2018 at 03:12 PM..
Old 02-05-2018, 03:07 PM
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On a stock engine there is nothing to be gained by port work. The valve job on the other hand is far more important for performance than most realize. As Bruce says rings can be touchy though I'm not sure
what he's saying about hurting bearings?
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Old 02-05-2018, 04:07 PM
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A full set of steel studs from Porsche is 1/2 the price of the ARP or Raceware studs ($300 vs $600). I may mod the engine in the future, but I would never exceed 250HP. Are the OEM steel studs OK, is there a compelling reason for the higher end studs? How about reusing the original nuts and washers? Are the studs a one time use fastener, or can the engine be rebuilt in the future without changing the studs? If so, can I leave the original upper steel studs in place (because that would cut the price tag in half, $150 for just steel lowers)?

Thanks in Advance,

Bob
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Old 02-06-2018, 08:47 AM
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Studs

There's no need for you to spend the extra money over standard steel studs.
But I'm sure you can find someplace else to spend it!
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Old 02-06-2018, 09:15 AM
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And yes they are reusable-unlike dilivar.
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Old 02-06-2018, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prschmn View Post
And yes they are reusable-unlike dilivar.
Except 993TT Dilavar's, which are reusable.
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Old 02-06-2018, 09:51 AM
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I agree just use regular steel studs to replace the crappy dilavar studs. Look at it this way. The 993 non-turbo engines came from the factory with all 24 steel studs.

It's a nice idea to clean up the head nuts and washers with some rust remover (CLR actually works if you give it some time) and then flatten the contact surfaces with some wet sand paper on a legitimate flat surface like a piece of glass.

Take a good look at your cams and consider regrinding them if they show any pitting. 964 profile is a good upgrade and can be reground on the original SC/Carrera profile. If you regrind the cams, you should reface the rocker arm follower pads to ensure the followers and cam lobes ride true to each other. And then as long as you're having the rockers faced, it's a good idea to check the rocker arm bushings. The bushing and shaft clearance is quite tight (similar to clearance between wrist pin and connecting rod bushing) and can make for a noisy valvetrain, even with new valve guides, if the rocker shaft clearance is near the wear limit (0.08mm = 0.0031")

Before you decide on re-ringing, you'll want to confirm what type of pistons & cylinders you have. If you have KS type, then re-ringing w/out any prep work is a crap shoot and typically not recommended. You could have an experienced shop lightly brush the bores with a proper honing machine. But you need to be sure your clearance remains within spec. Whereas Mahle with nikasil plating are OK to re-ring and you don't even need to hone them. Just clean up the bores with super hot soapy water and a red scotchbrite pad. Don't worry, you're not going to harm anything. Just trying to clean out the hatching and allow the new rings to bed with the bores.

I feel your pain. I recently removed the 3.2 from my '86 (only 77K miles) because it definitely needs valve guides. #3 spark plug was super fouled after many years of use and ignoring the inevitable need for valve guide replacement. When I began the engine disassembly, I found a lower, outer cyl #6 broken stud. your opinion on head studs

Great, now the cylinders were going to come off to do the lower studs. So I said screw it, i'll open it all the way up and see what else may be lurking. Thankfully everything looks great inside the case aside from some typical wear on the intermediate shaft bearings. I'll replace the rod bearings with factory Porsche from the dealer, new intermediate shaft bearings, new ARP rod bolts and leave the main bearings alone.
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Old 02-07-2018, 01:38 PM
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Bob, saw your post on FB. Steel is fine. Canyon makes a decent steel stud since you are only replacing the dilivar. If you were gonna bite the bullet, Supertec or ARP are a lifetime replacement item. Engine Builder Supply (EBS) will talk you through what parts you need to buy. I love pelican, but Don at EBS has a level of knowledge that will put you at ease. Basically, you need a master re-ring kit. And like KTL said above, make sure you have Mahle P/C's. If not, EBS also has freshly plated cylinders for about the same price you will get if you send them to the plating company.
Or send me your motor and we will get her sorted
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Old 02-07-2018, 02:53 PM
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3.2 heads flow pretty good, so no real need to port them. But there are small defects in the ports, ridges, transitions from the port to the seat etc that could be evened out.
Low hanging fruits that there to be picked, why not do it, its easy.
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Old 02-08-2018, 01:16 AM
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You can spend alot of coin on an engine rebuild. It's tough to get signficantly more power out of the engine w stock ignition and induction. What really made my 89 911 wake up was by rebuilding the gearbox with shorter 2,3,4 gears. Leave 5th gear stock so you can cruise and still have a conversation in the car, just my two cents.

Good luck with the rebuild. Take your time and measure everything five times, write it down, and check again. The tolerances in these engines are precise. Done precisely these engines reward you. And keep everything clean like you are about to do surgery.
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Last edited by JackMan; 02-08-2018 at 04:10 AM..
Old 02-08-2018, 04:06 AM
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Still on vacation and I've been reading through Wayne's rebuild book. I'm guessing I have the Alusil cylinders as my car is a garden variety US spec '87. In the book Wayne recommends pulling the P&C as individual assemblies (not removing the pistons from the bores / not disturbing the rings) if the intention is to reuse them. I think I fall into this camp.

I'm interested in some engine mods someday, just not today. When I get home I'm going to check for other broken studs. If it is just the one I may set the valve lash and just button it up for another 15K miles. If I find more then it will probably make my decision for me. Currently I'm at a budget of $2200 in parts, tools, and valve train rebuild. Guessing the reality would be closer to $2800 at a minimum, especially if I have any cam issues.

So far:
4 901-107-351-01-M260 Oil Return Tube (Solid Type) Brand: O.E.M.
24 901-104-382-02-M260 Kit PEL-REBKT-02N: 911 Cylinder Head Nut Brand: O.E.M.
12 911-101-172-00-M260 Kit PEL-REBKT-02N: Cylinder Head Stud - Steel -Upper/Lower Brand: O.E.M.
1 PEL-TOL-P202 P202 Cam Socket, with 1/2 Drive
1 PEL-TOL-P203 P203, 46mm Crows Foot, 1/2 drive
1 PEL-TOL-P237 P237 Cam Shaft Securing Bar, 911/911Turbo (1980-89), P9191
1 PEL-TOL-P241 P241 Spring Clips, Pair, needed for securing cam followers within crankcase half during assembly.
1 PWE-2436RHW Ride Height Combination Wrench for Spring Plate Eccentric Bolts. 24mm and 36mm combo wrench.
1 PEL-TOL-A10MM 10mm Allen Head Nut Removal Tool extra long
1 PEL-TOL-P243 P243 8mm Allen Extra Long Socket, Heat Exchanger Nut Removal Tool
1 930-100-907-04-M17 Engine Gasket Set - Cylinder Heads Brand: Victor Reinz Note: (Porsche 911 (1974-1989))
9 930-102-206-00-M36 Flywheel Bolt - Crankshaft to Flywheel Brand: Febi Bilstein Note:
5 911-105-222-06-M260 Kit C-105-22-KTN: Timing Chain Rail (Black), Brand: O.E.M.
1 911-105-222-05-M260 Kit C-105-22-KTN: Timing Chain Rail (Brown), Brand: O.E.M.
1 930-107-348-11-INT Oil Line to Camshaft Carrier (Right) Brand: OE Supplier
1 930-107-347-05-INT Oil Line to Camshaft Carrier (Left) Brand: OE Supplier
1 PEL-TOL-P207 P207 Dial Indicator Gauge Holder
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Old 02-18-2018, 06:28 AM
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Bob,

I suggest you search for pelican member 'CGARR" (Craig Garrett) on here. He does EXCELLENT machine work and is great with customer service (easy to get in touch with) and his prices are significantly cheaper than other shops I've come across. He can advise you on what you will need for the top end of the motor. Hope your rebuild goes smooth! I'm still working on rebuilding my 2.2S!
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Old 02-18-2018, 07:30 AM
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The factory repair manual says to replace the head nuts but I don't know why. Most have reused these nuts for a long time, on numerous occasions, and have seen no ill effects from reusing the nuts. So if yours are in good condition, as in the hex tooling is clean, I say reuse them.

Your '87 3.2 uses the bolt-end style cams if they are the original cams. So you don't need the P202 cam snout socket and you don't need the P203 monster crowsfoot. You also don't need P241 spring clips, as those are for 4 cylinder air cooled engines.

You also really don't need the long 10mm and 8mm allen socket tools. You can buy just the key and install them in your own sockets.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#6972a56/=1bn09th
https://www.mcmaster.com/#6972a58/=1bn0ada

Or if you have a set of keys that you can sacrifice, make your own from the L-shaped hex key and cut the bend off. Then insert the straight piece of key in your typical 3/8" drive 10mm and 8mm sockets.

So I just saved you ~$175 to keep you within budget?
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Old 02-19-2018, 06:51 AM
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