Yup, I asked the owner of EASY why they're going out of business - his answer was that they can't get parts cars anymore as people restore them rather than parting out.

If google is correct he's in Southern California while I'm in SF. Technically I think the car would make it there but considering what other shops in the area said I can't imagine he'd charge much less although it never hurts to ask.

Thanks. Sadly I don't have enough time, tools or space to do this. I wish I did though.

To do this type of work properly and correctly, it is expensive. Unfortunately, this business has become diluted with cheap work that has set the bench mark low.

I have replied to the gentleman here with how we go about costing out work like this. First off, we are not the cheapest. We are not a repair shop, we are a specialty engine shop. We do all of our own machine repair work in house. We call ourselves rebuilders and not assemblers.

I am often amazed by how others go about this work. An estimate is given (by law) but often the final cost sky rockets above this. The dreaded phone call, telling you they found something and now you need to spend another load of cash.

We approach this another way. We have a standard initial cost to disassemble the engine, inspect it, clean everything, crack check all parts and measure all parts. This does not change as the work is the same each time. And its the most labor intense part of the engine build.

We then supply a written quote for the machine work, the parts needed to be replaced and the assembly labor. We can quote to the penny as we know what needs to be repaired and replaced after the internal inspections. If the cost to rebuild is too high for any reason, the most you are out is the initial disassembly cost and you have thoroughly cleaned parts. You are not held hostage by ever increasing costs.

Having gone down this "slippery slope" 5 years ago with my 82SC, and agreeing with probably everything else I've seen mentioned in this thread, I'll toss in my comments:

1) Do your homework. Extensively! This costs nothing but your time.

2) Referring to (1) above, do what you can to find out if your pistons and cylinders are either the Mahle Nikasil type of the KS Alusil type.

2a) IF Mahle Nikasil type, you are probably ok if they are still in spec. The rings are readily available and (relatively) inexpensive.

2b) IF KS Alusil type, prepare to enter a world of pain. If you really want to throw the dice hard against the rail, then you might just leave the old rings on the pistons like someone else has already stated. If you want to throw the dice a little less hard, you can go with the (relatively inexpensive) Goetz ring pack that everybody else specs for the alusil pistons/cylinders that really aren't the correct rings but some folks manage to claim using a Sunnin hone and paste to prep the Alusil cylinders might work. If you wind up with an engine that burns a lot of oil and smokes because the rings didn't seat, well, it didn't work for you. The actual correct rings are practically unobtanium. In my case it came down to "I might get a hold of Hans and Franz in Germany and see if they can find a set and they WILL be pricey---like $600 for the set, and there is still no guarantee that they will properly seat." Short of spending BIG money for a new set of pistons and cylinders, be it KS or Mahle, or going with aftermarket JE Pistons and the same wrong ring package for your Alusil cylinders, there is one last option: Send your KS Alusil pistons and cylinders to EBS Racing in Reno NV and have them Nikasil plate the cylinders, hone to match your original KS pistons, and supply the correct Goetz ring package for your original KS pistons running in your newly refurbished Nikasil plated cylinders. This will run you around $1000 to do, well at least in 2013 dollars. However, it is by far the most controversial decision you will ever make in building a 911 air cooled engine. Prepare yourself for the masses saying "that won't work" because of the iron plating on the piston skirts that won't be compatible with the hard Nikasil of the cylinders. This is the option I chose. I've probably put close to 10,000 miles on my engine with NO smoking after start up as they always will do, virtually no oil consumption and it hasn't blown up yet. I can only guess that if it was such a bad idea, bad things would have already happened. But here again, I am only one single data point indicating that it indeed did work.

3) Count on the valve job as at the bare minimum, the exhaust valve guides are toast and need to be replaced. Intake guides may be fine. You won't know until you take them all apart and start looking for "wiggle room" between the valve guide and the valve stem.

4) Inspect the cam chain sprockets and idler sprockets for wear. If they are really worn, simply fitting new chains will supposedly just increase the wear of the old sprockets exponentially. Fitting all new cam sprockets, idler sprockets and new chains really won't be a good plan because of the intermediate shaft sprocket, in the engine case, is still probably worn as well. THIS is where you start thinking hard on the decision between just a "top end build" and an entire "split the engine case top end AND bottom end build", because to replace that sprocket on the intermediate shaft that resides inside the engine case, you have to split the case itself.

That's what I can think off the top of my head tonight. I would budget at least 10k for just the top end build. Like they say, "It's a very slippery slope, how far do you want to slide?"

One stud broke some years ago in my 84 3.2. I had/have no idea how many miles that was on it, but it needed new exhaust valve guides.
I decided to replace all the lower studs and new valve guides, nothing else. Had a good baseline, it ran good before, I gambled that the rings and bearings would be fine. Its just a labour and I could do it myself if it hadn't worked out.
Its been running good after the work, many hard miles on it after this.

Its a difference if you DIY it or if you have a professional shop and can't afford to take chances with reputation and do stuff over again.

Neil gives excellent advice.

SCadaddle nailed it in his list for #1.

Well said!

Some really excellent advice here, guys! Thank you!

How do I find out whether I have Nikasil or Alusil? Is there a way to tell this before taking the engine apart?

Take a look at the cylinders. Usually you can see them when looking at the bottom of the motor. Mahle cylinders are Nikasil and have eleven cooling fins while alusils have ten.

Here is how I do it. The magnet test is the gold standard.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-engine-rebuilding-forum/960981-my-nikasil-detector.html

Was there ever a 3.2 with Alusil???

Safe, yes there are 3.2 alucil.
Used cylinders have some value to open to 98mm instead of cutting open a Mahle nikisil set.
Bruce

I do understand how difficult it can become when rebuilding these engines.

I’m the bearer of the bad news. I must tell you what is wrong.

But it doesn’t need to be as hard as some make it out to be. Remember, these are mechanical objects that are made of iron, steel and aluminum. Every time you start the engine, degradation is taking place. How you drive the car and care for it all affects the life span.

The term slippery slope is used a lot. But it doesn’t have to be. High mileage engines will need everything looked at. Cutting corners and trying to save money will enviably come back and bite you. Kind of, pay now or pay later.

I believe a lot of the problems are due to misinformed owners when the engine repairs are first estimated. I also believe there are some out there that take advantage of unsuspecting owners, scaring them with tales from the dark side. If you don’t do this, it will explode. Many of these clowns, have no idea themselves what is required and how to do it.

When an engine requires rebuilding, and is still in the car, only a ball park estimate can be given. I’m not a fan of this, as I have no idea what needs to be done. Only upon internal inspection of the parts can I be assured what needs to be repaired and replaced. Then I can give you a full and binding quotation and you then decide to have the work proceed. This removes any doubts and that slippery slope.

This forum is about the DIY owner that wants to rebuild his or her own engine. I love this. I wish I had the opportunity to have a “hobby” like this. So, I come here to offer up how we go about this work, maybe give some useable advice and guidance on how to do certain work. Ours is not the only way, but it’s the way we have done this for years and our attention to detail stems from my time in F1.

Some good advice has been given here. Advice I believe in myself. I too send my car out to be worked on. I am a customer myself. Ask questions, leave nothing to chance and know exactly what you are having done and what the costs are.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1525347336.jpg

1988 Carrera , 10 fin cylinder KS Alusils. :(

Sorry, all European 3.2 and most, if not all, 3.0 are Nicasil.

no need to be sorry. New P and C's to Canada are around 8500 Canadian. lol. :eek:

My former ‘87 3.2 has Alusil as well