need thoughts on the e46 !!!

[KUTCH]

Just thought I'd ask...I have the opportunity to sell my 98 328is and buy a workmates 2000 328Ci. BUT, I also have the opportunity to buy a 98 M3 for 1K less. The 328Ci has 40K miles and has been taken care of. Its got the HID lighting and a few other little goodies thrown in. The 98 M3 is stock but pristine with 76K miles...WHAT WOULD YOU DO? This will be my daily driver, YEAR round, that means 60 miles a day even in the snow of upstate NY... PLEASE advise...
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thanks
kutch_L@juno.com

[RC76]

I'd probably go with the 328CI, newer with lower miles. Plus it will be cheaper to work on compared to the M3. But the M3 is temting, considering the performance difference. But this is for a daily, so the newer car would be my choice.

What's wrong with your current car?

[KUTCH]

thats the thing...nothing is wrong with my 328is...its just cracked 100K miles and the thought of getting somthing newer, less mileage crossed the mind...

[Jeron]

The E46 320 is a great car and will have a more comfortable ride, be safer and more luxurious.

The E36 M3 is an awesome and unique car. It demands more attention to drive and performs like crazy but it is less refined and has a less comfortable ride.

Your driving style and most common driving circumstances should be your guide. Since you drive a long commute and have annual snow I would have to say the E46 due to the ASC + DSC.

Jeron
01 330i
97 M3/4

[KUTCH]

yes, but dosen't the 98 M3 have ASC as well? Plus LSD would help in the winter?, No?

[Jeron]

Yes the 98 M3 has ASC, but it is far less advanced than the E46 ASC+DSC system. From my experience it merely keeps you from spinning your tires. However if you are in a hard turn on a slippery surface and accelerate you can easily induce a car spin.

I experienced it two weeks ago at an autocross in both rain and dry. Because the E36 ASC system does not detect yaw or lateral acceration it does not have any indication that the vehicle is spinning or in danger of spinning. Yes the ASC does help but not like the ASC+DSC on the E46.

On my 330, the system takes over before there is a risk of spinning the car. I must say that I have no extensive snow experience with the E46 system but I would expect it to perform well.

Oh, and LSD is bad in the wet and snow. It is better to only spin one wheel than two from a stability standpoint.

Jeron

[KUTCH]

wait a minute...LSD bad in wet / slippery conditions? I'm not sure I can agree with that at all???

[Jeron]

Have you driven a LSD in slippery conditions? Yes, you get more traction but that isn't the issue.

The problem is that when you do loose traction you loose it with both tires, which almost instantly results in a spin if you are underway.

An open diff however will only spin one wheel and the other will typically retain traction so you have time to realize you are spinning and lift the throttle before you spin.

So although you get less traction under acceleration it is safer from a stabilty standpoint to drive an open diff especially in slippery conditions.

Jeron

[KUTCH]

you do realize that the wheel that is not spinning has NO torque at all applied to it. All the torque is applied to the wheel that IS spinning, the other is free wheeling. Therefore theres more chance to go into a spin with an open diff.???

[Jeron]

No. The free/open/untorqued wheel maintains its lateral traction.

A spinning wheel has no traction either in the forward or lateral direction. When a wheel is spinning it is free to move to the side. However non-spinning wheel must first ivercome its lateral traction to slide sideways.

Picture a motor cycle. If you are on ice and pop the clutch your rear tire will slide sideways. Now what if you had two rear tires like on a motorcycle with a sidecar. You pop the clutch and the rear spins but you don't slide sideways because the sidecar tire holds its ground.

Jeron

[sbrracer]

I would agree with Kutch, the LSD would probably work better in the snow than the open diff.
DSC on my '99 328i is terrible in the snow, can't even get the car moving on an incline, only goes sideways. It's easier to get the car going in the snow with DSC off. Don't know what ASC+DSC would feel like.
Here's another consideration on the M3 vs. 328 option - insurance cost. The M3 premium will be roughly double the amount a 328 would cost . I would recommend calling your insurance company and getting a quote for either car. Also, if you have any recent tickets, getting another car may prompt the insurance companies to check your records and to re-evaluate your risk factor!!

[Jeron]

Yes, to get moving from a snowy standstill the LSD will help and it won't be too dangerous because you don't have as much inertia to get you into trouble. The E36 ASC will keep you from spinning the rears anyway so you are good to go.

Although I gave an example from a standstill, my concern is at speed. Take a icy corner in a LSD and hit the throttle and you will spin both rears and the car will slide/spinout. In the open diff, only the inside wheel will spin and the outside will keep you from spinning the car. (I'm speaking relatively here because you CAN spin the car in both a LSD and open diff. I am also ignoring traction control for the sake of the LSD/open diff discussion.)

Back to my original statements about E36 and E46 traction control. The E46 ASC+DSC won't let you spin the rears (in a corner or not). It will cut the throttle (based on the lateral motion sensor and the wheel spin sensor) and prevent the problem in the first place. The ASC in the E36 is not as sophisticated and I can induce a vehicle spin even in the dry with it on. It is much more difficult to spin the E46 with the ASC+DSC on.

I have experience with both the E36 and E46 in autocrosses in dry and rain. I'm not just speculating here. I've actually done all of the things I'm talking about, in rain and dry with traction control on and off.

The insurance is much higher on my 97 M3 than my 01 330i, both four doors. The M3 is 50% higher. Gotta call about that...

Jeron