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So the lc2 and afxied do the exact same thing except the lc2 has a diagnostic port but the install is more difficult? Do you need a wideband for the lc2?
Old 08-14-2018, 04:35 PM
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Not the same thing. LC2 tells you your air fuel ratio so you know where to set your Af-xied (enrichment spoofer) to hit a good air fuel ratio...
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Old 08-14-2018, 05:10 PM
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They can be used in the same way. The LC-2 has a simulated narrowband output that will directly drive the Motronic and be set to any AFR. If you have an LC-2 you don’t need an AF-XIED. The LC-2 is easier, but here is how I installed my first LC-1: http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=826502&page=1

Last edited by Roger 04 RT; 08-14-2018 at 05:43 PM..
Old 08-14-2018, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa145V6 View Post
Since the winter I have been reading up on the various options to get the fueling correct. Mostly on other forums to do with the GS.
Some days I think I understand the science and then somebody posts something that scrambles my thoughts and I’m back to square one!
Your explanations on other places are great Roger but I get to the point of not being able to follow it all, especially your chats with John Gemi. I probably over think it, but I do like to know what’s going on.
Anyway, despite the bad exchange rate I’m about to order the AF-XiED from BBY as my bike has the various mods done to it so it surely must be running too lean. I had a recent tour of over 1000 miles and it ran well, but I feel I’m pushing my luck so the AF-XiED should help matters.
The trick is not understanding too well!! by introducing various mods which are pretty dam close to unique on the 1100 you need a means of adjusting the fuelling,the ECU is from another era in other words it’s bloody Stone Age.

With an induct/SJ/exhaust I know how bad mine was at 4250 revs as will anyone elses’s their will be parts of the fuel map that need extra fuel and others that do not.

Hence why the best solution has been a PC you can be selective,where it has become all to complicated is PC have stopped production for the S so unless you can either find old stock or secondhand you have to settle for the next alternative.

The first fuelling spoofer was/is the booster plug and now you have the AF-Xied it’s just that the latter is adjustable,i’m Not going to banboozle you with technical tosh it’s better than the booster plug because that’s non adjustable but i’ve Had similar on another bike and swapped it for a PC and it wouldn’t hold a candle to a proper fuelled map on a dyno.

The reality is with a fuelling spoofer to get the area’s right in the map that are running week and need more fuel means in others areas the map will be over fuelling and there is nothing you can do about it because spoofers are non selective.

But if their are no other options you have little choice but to go that way unless you try a chip.
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Old 08-14-2018, 11:26 PM
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Lol this is confusing cause i keep reading a lot of contradicting statements. Does anyone have any numbers or graphs that would show the curves of these different options?
Old 08-15-2018, 07:27 AM
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Contradicting??
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:47 AM
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Thanks Chris, I can follow that and it is how I understand it.
I will have a search for the holy grail of Power Commander suitable for the R1100S.
I guess a few hours on a rolling road will add to the cost but at least it will be the best I can have out of this tractor engine 8-)
If I don’t find one then the AF-xied will be the best compromise for me.
But now I read about some ‘LC2’? For crying out loud! What the hell is this now?
Oh Gawd, more research and more stuff to learn. I might just go out for a ride instead!
Old 08-15-2018, 09:46 AM
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AF-XIED and lc-2 do the same things in different ways. They shift the oxygen reference signal sent from the exhaust to the Motronic. This results in the Motronic producing a richer mixture. The AF-XIED uses the stock narrowband o2 and is plug n play. The LC-2 uses a wideband o2 and needs wiring and programming. For most AF-XIED is the way to go.

The heart of the pc III usb with wideband O2 is its use of the wideband. The pc III was sort of plug n play. The advantage of the LC-2 is you can graph afr while you ride. The advantage of pcIII was that you could adjust fueling above half throttle but not below except through the wideband, same as the
LC-2.
Old 08-15-2018, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
AF-XIED and lc-2 do the same things in different ways. They shift the oxygen reference signal sent from the exhaust to the Motronic. This results in the Motronic producing a richer mixture.
In layman’s terms they con the ECU in thinking it’s colder than it is so it lash’s more fuel in!!!

The problem being it lash’s more fuel in every where and not just where you want it and the booster plug does the same it’s just that it has no adjustment for how much fuel is going in.

Technically they are both termed a ‘ Bodge’ but if you cannot get a PC111 the only bodge in town.

Oh and the PC111 was never plug and play unless you were happy with a Dynojet generic map hence why you take the bike to the dyno because all bikes are different and need a custom map even with the same goodies.
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Last edited by Chris Canning; 08-15-2018 at 12:50 PM..
Old 08-15-2018, 12:44 PM
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Neither the AF-XIED or LC-2 have a thing to do with creating a temperature change. They are not at all like the BP. They provide a different exhaust oxygen reference point and both use a microcomputer to reprocess the O2 signal and send a shifted signal to the Motronic.

Last edited by Roger 04 RT; 08-15-2018 at 01:48 PM..
Old 08-15-2018, 01:40 PM
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Shame you do not have as much interest in the 1100s as you do dancing around your theoretical handbag how they con the ECU and the fact they are both blunt instruments is what matters,little of which has anything to do with the fact they are poor second choice but if they are the only option just a sad reality of living with an old bike you should buy one and find out!!!
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:57 PM
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Since all the 1150/1100S Oilheads run the same Motronic MA 2.4 I know how the 1100S fuels since I’ve measured many. Why don’t you just add an Innovate Motorsports LC-2 and make some measurements and see what your bike’s doing. It’ll cost you a bit over £100. You’ll be able to see just how rich/lean your bike is/isn’t. I’d be glad to help if you want.
Old 08-16-2018, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
I know how the 1100S fuels since Iíve measured many..
Thatís great you can show the OP a dyno run with all the mods with your favourite fuelling spoofer.
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:39 AM
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So does the lc2 enrich the whole map just like the afxied?
Old 08-16-2018, 08:27 AM
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Roger, how does the LC-2 communicate with the BMW ECU and alter the AFR target?
Old 08-16-2018, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chsmith112 View Post
So does the lc2 enrich the whole map just like the afxied?
As I said earlier they both do the same thing but in different ways. Please read the thread I sent you the link to.

That’s not a bad thing. In the Closed Loop area (which is up to half throttle) AFR is controlled by the setting of the AF-XIED or LC-2 and BMW bikes with richer Closed Loop fueling always run better. And above half throttle the extra fuel is almost always helpful. If you made a mod which reduced the amount of air brought into the cylinder for combustion above half throttle, maybe the extra fuel would reduce performance, but why would you do that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jduke View Post
Roger, how does the LC-2 communicate with the BMW ECU and alter the AFR target?
The output of the LC-2 is connected to the O2 input on the Motronic in place of the narrowband o2. Here is how I did it on my first bike: https://advrider.com/index.php?threads/wideband-o2-installation-overview.765485/ The LC-2 is easier than the LC-1.

I’ve recommended that someone with an engineering background add the LC-2 to a modified R1100S so that we can measure how much air the induct, lennie’s, etc. actually adds.


Lastly, none of these options (PC, AF-XIED, LC-2) allows any control of ignition advance, so that’s a limit in any case.

Last edited by Roger 04 RT; 08-17-2018 at 04:40 AM..
Old 08-17-2018, 04:27 AM
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Thanks Roger. I have an R12S, so if I installed 2 LC-2's in place of the existing O2 sensors, the ECU will read the wide band O2 output and automatically alter the AFR. Correct? How would you change the AFR?
Old 08-17-2018, 05:00 AM
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What year, is it a water cooled?

But yes, you’re correct. AFR IS PROGRAMMABLE over a wide range. A friend did his cam head.
Old 08-17-2018, 07:44 AM
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2007, hexhead. I understand the install, just trying to figure out how to change the AFR.
Old 08-17-2018, 08:32 AM
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It will work great on a hexhead. There is a programming tool that connects a pc to the LC-2. When you’re ready pm me and I will explain.

Last edited by Roger 04 RT; 08-17-2018 at 08:45 AM..
Old 08-17-2018, 08:42 AM
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