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So installation aside which is better and more reliable to gain the most HP? The LC2 or the AFXIED?
Old 08-17-2018, 10:20 AM
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The point isn't to make the most power, it's to smooth out the entire rpm range making the bike eminently more rideable. Even with major work this motor only makes modest power gains. If power is what you're after try a different bike, mine is a zx14.
Old 08-17-2018, 10:36 AM
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+1 to make appreciably more HP you have to get a lot more air into the engine.
Old 08-17-2018, 10:45 AM
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It most certainly ain’t about HP it’s about getting what power you have as quickly as possible hence why when I mentioned about riding a bogstock boxercup is was as though BM had made a long stroke motor compared to how quickly mine revs.

Depending on what starting point you have with you engine which can be anything between mid 80’s to low 90’s you won’t see over 100hp but the transition that can be had is astonishing with Rev speed but after those mods that’s it.

Start saving for those aftermarket wheels
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Old 08-17-2018, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chsmith112 View Post
So installation aside which is better and more reliable to gain the most HP? The LC2 or the AFXIED?
As I answered earlier, these devices won’t affect peak HP. However, in the closed loop area, below 1/2 throttle where we do much of our riding—and particularly between idle and 3500 rpm—you will get more torque from the engine if you shift the closed loop mixture from 14.7 to 13.8. Most us us who’ve made this mod upshift sooner and ride one higher gear.
Old 08-17-2018, 11:16 AM
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Thanks Roger. There seems to be interest in this, how about we keep it here and open so anyone interested can get all the info here? What tools are needed once the LC-2's are installed?
Old 08-17-2018, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jduke View Post
Thanks Roger. There seems to be interest in this, how about we keep it here and open so anyone interested can get all the info here? What tools are needed once the LC-2's are installed?
Just a PC (Windows) and a serial to USB cable. Then there are two utilities on the Innovate site. Logworks which lets you monitor and plot AFR and LM Programmer which lets you set up the parameters inside the LC-2 that create an analog, simulated, narrowband output.

I think when you do the job it would be better if you started a thread with an easier to find title.
Old 08-17-2018, 11:42 AM
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I like to make riding logs. To do that you have to strap a PC to your bike somehow or buy a recorder box from Innovate. I just use my PC.
Old 08-17-2018, 11:44 AM
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Thanks Roger, looking into all that's involved. I did basically the same thing on a Ducati and the results were noticeable. There's a guy in Australia that created a program that takes logged data and calculates the optimal AFR. It takes a few road trips with a PC attached to log the data but well worth the effort.
Are you sure these changes will be fairly permanent? You posted a lot about the ability of the BMW ECU forcing everything back to the factory default.
Old 08-17-2018, 12:08 PM
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So then if the closed loop is 13.8 then eventually the open loop will also be there once the ecu adjusts?
Old 08-17-2018, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by jduke View Post
Thanks Roger, looking into all that's involved. I did basically the same thing on a Ducati and the results were noticeable. There's a guy in Australia that created a program that takes logged data and calculates the optimal AFR. It takes a few road trips with a PC attached to log the data but well worth the effort.
Are you sure these changes will be fairly permanent? You posted a lot about the ability of the BMW ECU forcing everything back to the factory default.
The changes are permanent. I’ve written a lot about the ability of the ECU to lock onto the O2 sensor reference signal. When you use an AF-XIED or LC-2 you provide a different, richer, reference which the ECU adheres to.
Old 08-17-2018, 07:33 PM
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So then if the closed loop is 13.8 then eventually the open loop will also be there once the ecu adjusts?
Not exactly. If you have added 6% to the Closed Loop area by shifting the O2, then that 6% is added to the long term trims. The long term trims are applied everywhere. So for example if the ECU was designed to have an AFR of 13.5 at wot, that would get about 6% richer to about 12.8.

This is all explained in this link I sent you: Introduction and O2 Question - BMWSportTouring Forums
Old 08-17-2018, 07:39 PM
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I have been a busy bee, looking around various places and the PC3 does seem to be the best.
Further reading talks about the fact that it can’t alter the ignition curve, only add or subtract fuel, which is better than most as they can only add it.
(I’m not sure if the engine is over fuelled at any point though).
In fact I found an old thread on google from Pelican back from March 2008.
I remember reading it at the time (got my bike in 2004) but I had forgotten all about it.
It certainly got over heated with private messages flying about, egos getting bruised, people bailing out, and finally closed by Roger(mod) before the legal guys got involved and the site being at risk.
Phew, I hope that doesn’t happen again.
What I find very surprising, considering the undoubtably clever guys with in depth knowledge that have discussed this issue over and over in the past, is that there has never been a definitive answer as to what hardware is the best/most suitable.
My 2 cents ... the bike runs lean due to legislation in the first place.
Our mods can make the mixture even leaner. But not enough to burn a piston with normal riding.
The ecu is what it is. I suggest adequate and generally fit for purpose.
We can only influence it a bit, and only a bit, using one of about 7 or 8 methods I can think of.
If we up the fuel a touch using our method of choice then the engine will respond in a positive way as proved by many riders.
I don’t think at the end the day it matters a great deal what method you use as we are talking fractions and not what a new ecu, for example, would give us. In other words, we can only slightly influence it.
Just get a little extra fuel into it to smooth things out.
I have the inlet and exhaust mods so now doubt running lean, so my spoof of choice? S1000XR lol!
AF-xied will do nicely for my pocket and my road riding. What ever you chose will also be correct and improve your enjoyment of the bike.
Isn’t that what it’s all about? Enjoying this fine looking machine and the great outdoors.
Old 08-18-2018, 04:58 PM
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The chances of anyone doing a potted history of the Pelican both technically and participant wise is frankly impossible you would be here for months and if your looking for bust ups you’ll be inundated

But as you can see just looking at this thread ie BTTB post about how he had his rear shock made longer even now after all these years there’s a bit more to making your 1100s work than just a shopping list.

As for the X/R yep been the same route with that Dymags/Headers/pipe/filter/Powe Commander the only difference the 02’s go in the bin the game has moved on
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Old 08-19-2018, 04:16 AM
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The chances of anyone doing a potted history of the Pelican both technically and participant wise is frankly impossible you would be here for months and if your looking for bust ups you’ll be inundated has moved on ...
No kidding. It's an era that has come and gone. At one time this board and the bikes were like the old Harley saying "If I had to explain it, you wouldn't understand." For better or worse, everyone knew each other, the Jeff Williams, Brad Zimmerman's, and others... All gone... Now the board is simple "technical" and turning into dust in the wind...
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Old 08-19-2018, 07:01 AM
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For better or worse, everyone knew each other, the Jeff Williams, Brad Zimmerman's, and others... All gone... Now the board is simple "technical" and turning into dust in the wind...
I'm still here (from time to time)!

I used to kid Jeff about constantly stopping to add/remove a click from his Ohlins. I was a guy that just used the stock suspension and if I saw a big bump approaching, went around it or stood up! All this technical stuff was never my thing, but it's fun to listen to. The knowledge here is (or was) amazing....

Brad, as an ex-motocrosser, really made his bike work - not to mention his skills - and I never could keep up with him.

Those were fun times.
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Old 08-19-2018, 08:36 AM
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Now the board is simple "technical" and turning into dust in the wind...
A lot friendlier though.
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Old 08-19-2018, 06:57 PM
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Y'all have gotten soft, no more love fests back & forth over some trivial point until Roger had to stop the fun. The good old days.
Old 08-19-2018, 07:36 PM
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Well i’m Not going to be a hyporcrite now and say otherwise but I always struggled with Brad,JEFF on the other hand I/we met over here in fact he brought a couple of SJ filters over in his luggage,we came from different worlds but sang off the same hym sheet when it came to all things motorcycle even the stopping for the odd click

Left us with the famous expression ‘Work smarter not harder’

But nothing stays the same the days of the 1100s being even close to the top of the food chain are long gone and is now bargain basement,sadly the bike always required some serious money to turned it into a reasonable bike but that has been part of the fun and it’s been the bikes way of selecting its owners who were in it for the long haul.

To this day if we are going on a pre organised trip and the weather is bad always wheel the 1100 out we have had some horrendous trips in terrible weather conditions and it’s always been a joy to ride.

One thing that doesn’t change these threads wander all over the place ��
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Last edited by Chris Canning; 08-20-2018 at 12:40 AM..
Old 08-19-2018, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfa145V6 View Post
I have been a busy bee, looking around various places and the PC3 does seem to be the best.
Further reading talks about the fact that it can’t alter the ignition curve, only add or subtract fuel, which is better than most as they can only add it.
(I’m not sure if the engine is over fuelled at any point though).
In fact I found an old thread on google from Pelican back from March 2008.
I remember reading it at the time (got my bike in 2004) but I had forgotten all about it.
It certainly got over heated with private messages flying about, egos getting bruised, people bailing out, and finally closed by Roger(mod) before the legal guys got involved and the site being at risk.
Phew, I hope that doesn’t happen again.
What I find very surprising, considering the undoubtably clever guys with in depth knowledge that have discussed this issue over and over in the past, is that there has never been a definitive answer as to what hardware is the best/most suitable.
My 2 cents ... the bike runs lean due to legislation in the first place.
Our mods can make the mixture even leaner. But not enough to burn a piston with normal riding.
The ecu is what it is. I suggest adequate and generally fit for purpose.
We can only influence it a bit, and only a bit, using one of about 7 or 8 methods I can think of.
If we up the fuel a touch using our method of choice then the engine will respond in a positive way as proved by many riders.
I don’t think at the end the day it matters a great deal what method you use as we are talking fractions and not what a new ecu, for example, would give us. In other words, we can only slightly influence it.
Just get a little extra fuel into it to smooth things out.
I have the inlet and exhaust mods so now doubt running lean, so my spoof of choice? S1000XR lol!
AF-xied will do nicely for my pocket and my road riding. What ever you chose will also be correct and improve your enjoyment of the bike.
Isn’t that what it’s all about? Enjoying this fine looking machine and the great outdoors.
You’ve raised the question of what would be best, and there are a few possible answers. Read the documentation on the Megasquirt, and you’ll find some answers (MegaSquirt | Premier DIY EFI Controller).

If you’re looking for the best result for a street Oilhead, with other modifications to increase the VE of the engine (more air in the cylinder at combustion), there are a couple options that come to mind. Here are the pieces that I see:

—A Motronic chip developed that gets the VE, ignition advance and dwell right for each cell-from idle to WOT, AND 800-7000+ RPM, and designed to be interfaced to an LC-2, taking the Motronic adaptation routines into account.
—Lambda-shifted (afx or LC-2) to richen the mixture, reduce EGT, and boost torque below half throttle.
—Matched injectors to get the fueling to be equal for each side.

Or,

—Develop a Megasquirt with Wideband O2 solution and matched injectors. This has the advantage of having full documentation which is lacking on the Motronic.

Without addressing the ignition advance and dwell (especially on the dual plug), probably the best you can do is richen and measure the AFR to make sure you have enough fuel at wider throttle angles. The unknown to me is how much air is being added by the various 1100S mods. Is it a couple percent or ten? You could estimate that by measuring WOT AFR before and after using an LC-2. Below is my WOT AFR after richening the Closed Loop mixture, which I’m showing as a way to demonstrate that it can be measured on our bikes on the street. The plot below is 4th gear WOT acceleration from about 30 mph to 110 mph.


Last edited by Roger 04 RT; 08-20-2018 at 04:33 AM..
Old 08-20-2018, 04:28 AM
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