Air Filter

[pmc847]

Repoe3

I'm looking at designing a new air filter set up for the S and I like what you did for the Aprilia with the ITG filter. What are the measurements (LxWxH) of the filter" My idea is to mount the filter on a plate (like SJBMW) but on top of the air box, use front half of stock intake to direct fresh air to the filter. It would work similar to your Aprilia set up. What do you think.

Philip
"It's a great bike but I can make it better".

04 R1100S BCR # 195
03 R1100S BCR #44 R.I.P. new home with 'onekiwi'
Milled heads .025
Larger Valves +2mm intake & Exhaust
Ported and polished heads (just a little)
SJBMW Exhaust Accelerator Kit (modified)
Laser Exhaust
InDuct
SJ PowerFilter
Laser 2 spark Chip
Ohlins
Sargant Seat
Throttle bodies matched to rubber mounts matched to heads
Throttle bodies venture steps smoothed out.
Exhaust pipe welds ground down
Aux Fuel Tank (6.8 gallons total)

[pmc847]

repoe3,

Are you there?

Philip

[repoe3]

wow..i just happen to click on this..shoudl have put my name in the subject

interesting idea. will confirm dimensions in a minute. thinking out loud...your idea has and interesting approach. seal the box lower with a plate with opening for the filter to draw air through. but i am struggling with how you are going to feed the TB's?

the filter was the JC20/100...dim. are in mm
http://www.itgairfilters.com/downloads/JC20.pdf

repoe3

[pmc847]

repoe3,

It would be like installing the SJBMW filter charger on top of the air box instead of in the air box.

The dimensions for the JC20/100 are too big. K&N has an Aprilia filter (AL 1001 and AL 1098) that are round and would work with the proper plate. ITG has a replacement filter for the Aprilia Mille (BH174) that should work too.

Although the SJBMW filter set up works I think it can be improved and I don't think the ram effect using the stock or Induct has much benefit for anything under 100mph. I do think directing cool air back to the filter and using the whole (enclosed) space behind the battery will provide improvement and efficiency to the motor in the RPM range we use 90% of the time.

Thoughts

Philip

[repoe3]

the battery is directly in front of the airbox and where the snorkle mates to it. so you are saying add a filter to lid and it will draw air in like before. i see...hmmm.

i could have told you the one i used was too big, but they have smaller ones in that family...check the specs. i think the smallest or second size up may work and give you an oval shape versus round..think that would help draw air around the battery. hell, you would not even really need the snorkel anymore as the bodywork does the ducting for you. i may have to join you on the exercise.

as for the stock aprilia filters or aftermarket ones, they are not different than the SJ filter, just have a cap on one end. you could fab something like that to work with your our of lexan as a prototype and then move to something else more resilent.

wont have a chance to think much about it until i am back from the track.

moving ahead to the idea that you have something that works, fits the top of the airbox, etc...interested in knowing how or what effects will come out of it. think about it...you will have as good or better flow, increased airbox volume as the filter does not take up any space.

the only other idea i had been contemplating, was buying some uni filter foam sheets and making a piece to fit the opening where the snorkle mates to the box. it would have less surface area and possibly require more freq. cleaning, but you would free up the entire box volume.

repoe3

[repoe3]

quick rendering...low-tech of course...


shoudl be noted, the slope or curve of the center section of the bodywork will, i think, require a filter flexible to squash a bit, but not much. i could still see getting some uni filter material and chicken wire to form a shape suitable and attach the filter material to that and mount to the top of the airbox. hmmm...i see a low-cost project to try.

now where is the rest of the collective wise ones to give their theoretical take on the topic?

repoe3

[JonyRR]

I'm in the process of cobbling up a schnorkel that uses every bit of available space under the tank and side panels.
SJ powerfilter in the airbox.
I think the total surface area of the SJ is adaquate, it just needs a bigger tube and larger plenum on top of it.
I ran mine without any schnorkel but with a homemade velocity stack and I liked the way it ran; pulled 8200RPM in 6th on a flat...

[pmc847]

The actual opening of the SJ filter ( oval ) is 3.5 x 2 or 5.5 sqin. The replacement K&N for the aprilia is (round) 3.875 id or 11.35 sqin. The actual opening of the stock air box lid is 5 x 3.75 or 14.7 sqin. It would be nice to be able to use the stock lid and find or make a foam filter to fit it.

Also, should have adjustable cam sprockets tonight or tomorrow.

Philip

[JonyRR]

vernier sprockets...I'm VERY interested in the before-and-after.
I want to ask a question and no disrespect intended AT ALL.
Are you SURE you are 9&11 degrees retarded?
even counting .025" off the cylinderhead, that's a HUGE amount. I know you've degreed cams before and quoted the figures at the correct lift, it's just that......man, that's a lot off. way, way off.
In my UJM days it was not uncommon for a KZ1000 to be 3-5 degrees either way...but 9?
Just curious.....

[pmc847]

I do not take any disrespect from you questions. It's better to have the questions asked now and measure and re-measurer than to make a big mistake. I really appreciate your input and help.

I just check again yesterday. Set up the degree wheel using a piston stop. Then set up the dial indicator on the valve spring collar (top), rotated engine until I got .120 lift and then looked at degree wheel which was at 16 degrees ATDC. BMW spec is 3mm lift at 5 degrees ATDC. I have done this at least a dozen times or more since I started the project. I figured with milling the heads it might retard about 3 degrees so that means the stock set up was retarded 8 degrees. This is all on the right side. The left side is at 14 degrees. I read some where that someone has seen 6 degrees off on BMW more than once. I can't remember where.

Have you degreed yours yet?

Philip

[repoe3]

Originally posted by pmc847
The actual opening of the SJ filter ( oval ) is 3.5 x 2 or 5.5 sqin. The replacement K&N for the aprilia is (round) 3.875 id or 11.35 sqin. The actual opening of the stock air box lid is 5 x 3.75 or 14.7 sqin. It would be nice to be able to use the stock lid and find or make a foam filter to fit it.

Also, should have adjustable cam sprockets tonight or tomorrow.

Philip

ah, having never held an SJ filter in my hand, i thought it was round from the pics i have seen.

i like your idea, i think fab'n a foam filter iwht a flexible cage from wire would do the trick and could be easily made to fit the shape of the center fairing panel.

looks like i will order some of that uni filter material and post pics after i whip something up.

that is, if you dont mind me riding your coat tails on this one.

repoe3

[repoe3]

as for cam sprockets...that is well over my realm of comprehension. i understand, or so i think, the concept of cam sprockets indexed to determine with the cam lobes do their thing. adjusting cam sprockets would do one of two things (this is a question in the form of a statement)...change the timing of when the lobes do their thing or increase decrease the duration of the lobes doing their thing. clue me in...thanks.

repoe3

[pmc847]

repoe3,

Be my guest and go for it.

I've been looking for the dimensions of the ITG JC10 but no luck. By chance do you have or do you know where to get the specs?

There is an optimum setting for the cams to perform their best. Both cams should be degreed the same, of course, for best performance. BMW claims 3mm lift at 5 degree ATDC is the best, of course they are tuning for EPA and other big brothers. I'm tuning for performance, mostly in mid range, where I ride most of the time. Moving the cams on the S will not increase nor decrease duration, that's fixed but will effect where they do their thing the best.

Philip

[repoe3]

got it, thanks. i do have a link to the pdf spec...let me check.

repoe3

[repoe3]

hmmm...dont see a JC10 on the ITG site. are you sure they make one?

repoe3

[pmc847]

Yep. Here you go.

http://www.itgairfilters.com/content2.asp?section=raceair-filters

Philip

[JonyRR]

repoe:
general rule of thumb on cam timing:
timing (WHEN they open and close valves in relation to crankshaft/piston position)
advancing the cam timing lowers the powerband and retarding it raises it.
cam lift is how far(deep) the valves are open
cam duration is how long the valve stays open.
of these 3 variables, the easy one to 'speriment with is timing.
I was told long ago/far away in different universe personally by a Very Respected Tuner:
'massive horsepower comes and goes in just a few degrees of cam timing'.
Now that was specifically about 2-valve hemispheric-combustion-chamber kawasaki engines but it's a very accurate rule of thumb...

[JonyRR]

and since we're talking air filters, remember the thread on Blow Jobs...as in electric superchargers....

[lennie]

Phillip,

The guys at CBT Imports had Mark Doebeck formerly of DynoJet put an air pressure meter on an RT way back.

At 18 mph it read positive pressure and at 100 mph it actually had 4 in of positive pressure on the gauge. It could have been higher but that is all the gauge read.

Mark said it was the best he had seen for any road going ram air system to date and better than any production motorcycle he ha d measured.

There is not a lot of room to put a good flowing air filter under the tank inside the duct itself. I had looked at this idea originally but dropped it when I realised it would be difficult and expensive to do.

Chris at SJBMW later came out with the Powerfilter which I have always recommended and I think anyone would be hard pressed to improve on the combination of the InDuct and SJ Powerfilter.

The guys who developed the InDuct are well reknowned here in Australia for their intake systems and Motec fuel injection tuning for both street and racing applications.

Having said that, I wish you well in designing the new filter/duct setup.

[repoe3]

Originally posted by pmc847
Yep. Here you go.

http://www.itgairfilters.com/content2.asp?section=raceair-filters

Philip

ah, its part of a different line up. has a different base as well.

repoe3