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I'm in. Show up on whatever you want. A R11S will surely be close by as we cover the Wolf Pen, Blood Mountain, War Woman, NC 28, Old 60, Eljay Rd, 180, ect. ect. I've done them all. I have never been slipped away from by a UJM on those roads and don't think it will happen now. Whatcha ridin Deltoid??
Old 05-20-2004, 08:25 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #101 (permalink)
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Pep, for calibration the suspension on the BCR and regular S vary only by the paralever, and shock length and valving. Those are variables that can be juggled on any bike when you're playing with shocks anyway, so I don't think you should feel you lost analyzing anything. Not a BCR slam mind you. I'm just saying that if you're changing the shock anyway, and already have a GS paralever anyway, then there's no difference. The later ones (regardless of cup vs reg) are supposed ot be about 2lb lighter in the tranny. That's the only weight difference. (unless you compare to the orignal r11s-light, which was of-course/paradoxically, the heaviest model. Go figure. Possibly done by the same crew that made the S's bag mounts wider than those of the RT. Gag.
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Old 05-20-2004, 08:37 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #102 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by roger albert
Pep, for calibration the suspension on the BCR and regular S vary only by the paralever, and shock length and valving. Those are variables that can be juggled on any bike when you're playing with shocks anyway, so I don't think you should feel you lost analyzing anything. Not a BCR slam mind you. I'm just saying that if you're changing the shock anyway, and already have a GS paralever anyway, then there's no difference. The later ones (regardless of cup vs reg) are supposed ot be about 2lb lighter in the tranny. That's the only weight difference. (unless you compare to the orignal r11s-light, which was of-course/paradoxically, the heaviest model. Go figure. Possibly done by the same crew that made the S's bag mounts wider than those of the RT. Gag.
The comparo I saw listed the Boxercup circa 13 poiunds lighter than a "regular" S [I don't know which "regular" S they used]... I assumed that was because the BCR has no centerstand and ABS... The height figures indicated that the motor should be within a few cm of where the GS motor rides ["Regular" GS, not the Adventure]... With the additional height, the wheelbase is still about an inch longer than my R1100RS with all the stuff I've done to it... Add the more powerful motor, and I'm thinking I still have work to do before I could win a race against myself if I was on the BCR...

Do I have that straight, or am I missing something?...
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Old 05-20-2004, 08:57 PM
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Other than the two pounds mentioned in the trans, the weights are the same. Some regular bikes don't have abs either. IIRC, that adds 9lb. The Sport shocks are a bit heavier, about a pound between the two of them. The ones with the 5.5" rims also pick up weight vs the 5.0 shod ones. Not sure if any are lighter by more than two pounds than a 99 with small battery/low-output-alternator, and 5.0 rim.

The latest lose two pounds in the tranny, but pick up a half pound or so in the ignition. The sports are all heavier than the non-abs regular ones.


In short, feature for feature, the weights are the same. Remember, they're all the basic same bike, plus minus an inch in the shocks or paralever, or a half inch in the rear wheel. The only significant difference is rideheight and abs vs non abs.
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Old 05-21-2004, 12:38 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #104 (permalink)
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if anyone wants to take Curve up on his offer of a real world test on Wolf Pen Gap or Warwoman road, I have a little extra cash that I would be willing to wager. Sounds like a fun Saturday afternoon to me. My money is on Curve after seeing him ride at the GMR.
Old 05-21-2004, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by roger albert
The only significant difference is rideheight and abs vs non abs.
And the BCR has no centerstand, right?...

So, if we take a standard S with ABS and centerstand versus a BCR sans ABS and centerstand it should be more than 13 pounds lighter... Nine pounds for the ABS, and about the same for the centerstand... That would be about 18 pounds, and even if the shocks and some other bits are heavier for the BCR, seems to me it should come in at around 15 pounds lighter... I'm scratching my bald noggin!...

Somebody here has to have done this comparo before! ...

BTW: Ever done a Google Image Search on R1100S and Boxercup?... Some pretty cool stuff out there... This would appear to be circa max lean angle for a BCR...

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Old 05-21-2004, 11:20 AM
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Hey Pep;


Been to that shop in Belguim, Raf's has a lot of special bikes for sale
In 2002 when I was in Belgium I met the guy that started the BOXERCUP Races He tried to sell me his track bike, Since BMW wouldn't let him race anymore
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Old 05-21-2004, 09:19 PM
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Pep, there's a lot of different scales and a lot of different ways to way (dry, wet, moist, humid) and a lot of tiny accessory option. My point is that there's basically one S. You get it with short or tall shocks, short or tall arm, wide or narrow wheel, w/ w/o centerstand. Except for ABS and twinspark and EVO vs early brakes, they're all bolt ons. Unless you're going to leave it stock (or maybe want the bellypan) one is as good of a starting point as another. Guess you could also add the small battery and alternator to the list.
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Old 05-21-2004, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by roger albert
Pep, there's a lot of different scales and a lot of different ways to way (dry, wet, moist, humid) and a lot of tiny accessory option. My point is that there's basically one S. You get it with short or tall shocks, short or tall arm, wide or narrow wheel, w/ w/o centerstand. Except for ABS and twinspark and EVO vs early brakes, they're all bolt ons. Unless you're going to leave it stock (or maybe want the bellypan) one is as good of a starting point as another. Guess you could also add the small battery and alternator to the list.
Thanks, Roger... I think I have it now...

BTW: Look out for [b]this guy! ... He must have as warped a brain track as I do...

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Old 05-21-2004, 10:14 PM
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Rog/PEP - IIRC, after pulling my ABS unit ( ABSII ), it was ~15lbs. all by it's lonesome.

jeff
... 15lbs. that I *don't* mind haulin' around...
Old 05-22-2004, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by jclark
Rog/PEP - IIRC, after pulling my ABS unit ( ABSII ), it was ~15lbs. all by it's lonesome.

jeff
... 15lbs. that I *don't* mind haulin' around...
I'll second that emotion... ABS has kept me from crashing several times... I'm sure a few I don't even know about!...
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Old 05-22-2004, 05:32 PM
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I also have that concern about the accident that was behind me by 10 seconds, and I never knew about it. None of us will ever know those things. That's why I feel you can never have too much tech on your side, ABS included.
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Old 05-22-2004, 07:44 PM
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So what's wrong with a GS on a track day?

>8]

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Old 05-24-2004, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by profWacko
[B]So what's wrong with a GS on a track day?

>8]
Nothing, IMO... That's why I put the GS suspension on my RS! ...

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Old 05-24-2004, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by PEP
I'll second that emotion... ABS has kept me from crashing several times... I'm sure a few I don't even know about!...
What about when the ABS causes you to run wide into oncoming traffic when it freewheels on some lose pavement in a tight turn...........I rather decide...... a computer doesn't have enough or the right fuzzy logic to control how i want to ride ..........including squaring off turns. YS&DMV
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Old 05-24-2004, 04:32 PM
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Exactly.

I'm a long ways from a luddite. If the tech was better developed and more clever, I'd be for it. I have nothing against it, even if I don't like too much added weight and complexity, but, I'm not even a good rider, and have had it let me down. I'm sure my personal ABS keeps me from reaching the last percent or two (or 10?) of braking, but I've never just had my hand completely release.

Truth be told, it's probably of benefit 90% of the time to aggressive/sliding riders, and 99% of the time to the rest of us, but the worst braking scare I ever had was due to ABS, so I'm throwing my revered logic out the door and opting out. I'm not trying to convince anyone else to do the same. My example is a poor one,
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Old 05-24-2004, 07:03 PM
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at least you know what I'm talking about roger..................ABS is not for me on this bike the way I ride it . I can't even Imagine how taking away progressive feel of braking pressure is a good thing with power assist ABS.
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Old 05-24-2004, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
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at least you know what I'm talking about roger..................ABS is not for me on this bike the way I ride it . I can't even Imagine how taking away progressive feel of braking pressure is a good thing with power assist ABS.
You know, I'm almost half way between you and Roger's position and mine... I ran deep into an intersection once because of a washboard surface that "tricked" the ABS, so yes, it's not perfect... But I spent circa $19K on my LT, and I believe that ABS protects the investment, not to mention my bacon, well enough to have it on that bike, especially... But, if I get a KxxxS that is lighter and less expensive than the K1200S, and ABS is optional, I'd agonize over the decision of whether to get it or not... If I didn't get it, it would not only be to save weight, but also complexity... It's not even possible for people to service their ABS III Integral brakes because of how complex they've become with all that power assist crap...

I might just get the bike without it, especially since I'm not a demon on the brakes anymore...
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Old 05-24-2004, 08:22 PM
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From what I've read, the semi linked version of the Integral Brakes will be the only type delivered. Will be interesting to see if it changes.
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Old 05-25-2004, 08:22 AM
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The reasons stated above by ABS naysayers are the same sentiments I have about ABS. I want to decide whaat's going on, braking-wise, and I'm not about to give up the infinite shades of feel provided by a manual hydraulic system. Supremely fine-grained braking feedback is what a well-developed manual setup brings to the party; ABS removes that granularity, and BMW's 'power-assist' destroys it completely. I wanted a K1200GT until I rode one and you flat couldn't GIVE me that thing unless I could yard all the BMW BS out of the brakes.
Another point to ponder as our scoots inevitably roll down the road to non-end-user serviceability is a FDR (flight data recorder) component hidden somewhere in the 'lectronics by either the OEM's good intentions (the road to hell is right around the corner from most of 'em) or federal mandate...I GUARANTEE you won't want the ABS (or the airbag 'puter in an OBDII-compliant US spec automobile already does this) to be able to do a data-dump of your last 30 seconds or minute of operation to an officer-friendly's CAN (controller-area network) driven cruiser; and for those of you who don't believe that's technically feasable or coming to a freindly cop-shop near you, ever hear of Wi-Fi? 802.11X is so simple to retrofit to a vehicle's computer...I just might own the last motorcycle I'll ever buy new...
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Old 05-25-2004, 08:27 AM
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