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-   BMW R1100S / R1200S Tech Forum (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-r1200s-tech-forum/)
-   -   MCN Test Of R11S Bolt On's Confirm Their Over Rating (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r1100s-r1200s-tech-forum/163638-mcn-test-r11s-bolt-ons-confirm-their-over-rating.html)

Dr. Curve 05-18-2004 07:49 PM

MCN Test Of R11S Bolt On's Confirm Their Over Rating
 
To all the induct pushers, after market pipers, gause filter worshipers, and chip -will-fix-it-ers on this forum..................

What did you think of the Motorcycle Consumer News report on the aftermarket HP gains for R11S Bolt-on's in relation to what I, and several others, have been posting on the subject over the past year. It debunked the induct, K-N Filter, pipes, and chip, myths.........all in one fell swoop. Many of us who have messed with these engines over the years knew this to be the case and said so, myself included. Do you think that the forum here can recant their previous line of wheel lifting, exhaust sound enhanced seat of the pants gains, and wild HP Dyno figures that many of us know simply are not true.

I was pleased to see from the MCN piece that if cost is figured by HP gained..........then its cheaper and offers greater gain to put a set of pistons and cams in a R11S............... than it is to spend more money for less gain................like so many on this list have aspoused to.

MCM pulled no tricks in this test. The base machine, a dead stock R11S bike in perfect tune dynoed out at 89 RWHP and 67.5 foot pounds of torque. Even after four days of variables which included different ducts, different chips, different filters, and different pipes............the most they ever gained was with a ZTechnik exhaust, a stock chip, a K&N, and a SJ Induct...........and the massive gain accomplished with this expensive switch of parts, changes often touted by the wheeliers of this forum, was a boost in output to a mind boggling 90.1 RWHP and 68.9 foot pounds of torque.

Just like many of us have said all along, myself included, and taken the heat for it..............."Why do all this for a puny 1.1 Hp gain and 2.9 pounds of torque."

You can get more HP and Torque for less money by simply changing the pistons and leaving everything else stock, for instance. Simply adding cams......and not another thing is better than all the induct, gause filter, trick chip, open pipe mojo so often preached for our S units by the more vocal of this forum.

Of most value to me personally (True Joke) was the factual report that shows a Laser Exhaust, with a Laser Chip, a K&N, and a SJ Induct is content at yielding 86.3 HP and 66.3 Foot Pounds of Torque.

What a qimmick of products these suppliers have baited with...........and many on this forum have bitten.

I am now even more proud of my totally stock 99 S.........canister and all.

Highlander179 05-18-2004 07:55 PM

troll

BMWRider 05-18-2004 08:01 PM

Dr. Curve,

It's not about the dyno...screw the dyno....it doesn't take much to realize the S runs better with no catalytic converter and a decent set of pipes...everybody who has done these mods have posted how they noticed a difference in performance...including myself...boxercup will you please assist on this one...

Rider

Moybin 05-18-2004 08:09 PM

Are we talking about an obecalp effect here?

"I paid $$$ for these goodies, so it MUST be better. The ad told me it would be BETTER, so it MUST be better. It's going to be BETTER even if I have to delude myself! I tore my knuckles to heck, so it HAS to be BETTER!"

850dunstall 05-18-2004 10:34 PM

linK
 
so how about a link, can't seem to find any article ...

is this availalbe somewhere on the net? can't seem to find any reference to it on the www.mcnews site

c.l.

JonyRR 05-18-2004 10:54 PM

GAG!!! I (****, I can't believe I'm actually typing this) am actually agreeing with BMWwhiner, er rider, on this one. In OVER_THE_ROAD feel, throttle response, lack of surge and general improvement in how the motorcycle runs at any given throttle position/gear, the difference in my machine with a vanderlinde pipe and matching chip, K&N filter and what I felt was a major contributor to throttle response, nology coils and wires with non-resistor plugs; major, major improvement. And I did indeed quantify the before-and-after, as I did a very careful 0=0 tb adjust and TB synch and all the dealership juju (good friends of mine own Tacoma BMW and Big Fred said 'they all do that'...and I've known him for 30 years and he doesn't bull****) before I spent a penny on it; even after a hyper-careful tune, totally stock, my '99 S was a pig; pinging and surging and periodically stalling when the throttle was cracked from a standstill (a MAJOR no-no in Seattle traffic that'll get ya killed when some clueless soccermom on a cellphone runs you down from behind cause she's not paying attention). I don't doubt that I picked up maybe a HP, but the difference in the QUALITY of operation was astounding; depressing that I had to spend all that money to make it run like it should have out of the box; both Cascade BMW and Tacoma BMW said, when I had them look at it, 'this thing is perfect; nothing wrong with it at all...well, it RUNS noght-and-day better, and I would never accept the way it ran stock; stock out of the box it ran like crap. Now it doesn't...end of story for me. this next is OT; if BMW really has it together they wouldn't have put that abortion goat***k idrive in all the new cars....I will NEVER even consider one as long as that refugee from a failed DoD software upgrade is around, and I fear the 'benefits' of that approach will be foisted on the poor BMW motorcycle-buying public...beware OBDII for motorcycles; how bad will it be when the heat can download the last 90 seconds of hooliganisim from your scoot like they can with all OBDII-compliant cars...badbadbadbadbad...

Dan Alexander 05-19-2004 03:16 AM

I'm looking forward to reading the article. I agree with JonyRR about the 'over the road' feel of the bike before and after the mods I did. I had a check made out to me and my dealer because of an insurance claim and they just happened to have a Staintune sitting there that someone had ordered and backed out on. Gave me a great deal, and since it was found money I bought it. I was really looking forward to my first ride and was very dissapointed to feel no increase in power and in fact almost a loss, but it did rev quicker. I've gone down the list of mods like many here, including a BBPower chip, Lennie's Induct, SJ Power Filter and must say the bike really does run so much better than before. I'm always amazed at how strongly she pulls when the rev's get over 5 grand. It really is different than stock. Maybe this isn't dynoable but sure noticeable on the street, to me. I is a ton of money and not cost effective to be sure but I love my S's and if it makes it better then I'm happy.

Dr. Curve, I'm wondering if have you ridden a modded S and if you, yourself noticed any difference or not.

repoe3 05-19-2004 03:43 AM

any amount of money was worth getting rid of the ankle burner in the stock system...not to mention sound improvement, not to mention, top end HP was NOT the point of any upgraded part. my last S gained nearly 5 HP through out the range...where i would use it. sure it didnt gain much at peak, but i aint racing the damn thing!

i cant wait to see the article, having a time find a copy of MCN.

repoe3
who still think the doc is trying to convinve himself his stock bike is best for him...everyone now "DOC, YOUR BIKE IS PERFECT, YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T NEED THIS SITE AS MUCH AS WE DO."

rob_wijhenke 05-19-2004 04:31 AM

In favor of the Doctor, I have ridden many S's, some of them bone stock, some with pipes and chips and the odd K&N.

The first time I was surprised about the punch that some stockers have, one came close to my own (at the time) black S (with chip&pipes&K&N work, who was faster than my current red S pre-cams&pistons works).

The second one I rode had the pipes and chips work. It was much slower than my modified black S.

The other one I borrowed a few weeks back, when my red S was undergoing major surgery, had the cat eliminator and K&N. And it was REALLY fast. I mean fast. (not as fast as my $10k invested red S though).

My conclusion: all S's differ (BIG time). Some are slow stockers, some fast stockers. They all benefit from the mods used by us all. Indeed, cams and pistons make ALL the difference but also the pipes&chips work improve power. I have (seen) the graphs that proof that. The combination of all mods, as I have them now, are really impressive, unquestionable. I would consider the amount of cash you're willing to invest. If you do it all, like I did, it will cost you dearly. I would recommend the cams, pistons, cups&bolts, head and port flowing first, than chip, cat eliminator, cans, K&N and whatever I forgot.

Did I make sense here?

Dan Greene 05-19-2004 05:37 AM

Good one MOYBIN.

Kam 05-19-2004 06:10 AM

I thought riding a motorcycle was about the feel. I like my pipes of perfection and I won't give 'em back!

pdonnell 05-19-2004 06:51 AM

Troll!! Yea, I'll gut the engine with new internals....Screw the warranty.

EZ-RIDER 05-19-2004 07:02 AM

TROLL;

Look at my numbers Doctor!!!!!!!!!

Dr. Curve 05-19-2004 07:08 AM

Read the MCN article. They mention Pelican List specifically. They talk in terms of exploding the myth...........which they did. They did over 50 dyno runs in a four day controled period. Tough luck dreamers...........you may like the sound, the smoothness, the throttle response, ect..............but you most likely have less power than a stock unit....and if you have more .....its very LITTLE more. Face it. What a bunch of feel good, sound good, add on and "hope for the best," crap.

BMW Atlanta 05-19-2004 07:18 AM

Alright Curve,....... now youre getting it. You ride your butt up to my shop and take my bike out for the day,..........I gaurantee you'll change your view of the gains. I dont expect you to feel they are monetarily of good value,....but none the less I ride more "S" bikes in various states of tune then most anyone on here and I can give you a pretty good idea of what works and what doesnt.

And for the record,....my bike will kick your bike's butt hehehehehe.

The argument I pose for performance chips is simple. The factory has a set guideline for emmissions and various other parameters to meet on a bike with a catalytic converter. You remove the converter you now have more room for improvement. I would not own a stock R1100S period,....not a jab at BMW by any means as I have a hard time accepting any manufacturers OEM tune whether it be on my overly priced Powerstroke or Jeep Wrangler with 200k miles on the original motor. There are very few factory EFI's that dont need tweaking if youre at all a performance kinda person.

pdonnell 05-19-2004 07:24 AM

Dr. Troll,
You think S bikes come over from the fatherland optimally tuned irregardless of EPA and one bike for all riders considerations?
.
Go back to your crack pipe.

BMW Atlanta 05-19-2004 07:27 AM

To further this argument,....................the Boxer Cup race is a spec class race. Then why the aftermarket exhaust and super secret highly tweaked factory Motronic??????????????? If the stock set up is so superior, then why the upgraded equipment?????? I seem to remember you blasting me about the stock clutch sucking balls and you mandated that our bikes dont produce enough power to fail a BMW engineered stock clutch. Yet I was then commended when I broke the news that BMW had a new factory clutch going through R&D specifically engineered due to many failures during the boxer cup races. I feel that little incident mirrors whats going on here. Keep your bike stock, but it shows your "in the box" thinking when youre supposed to be the kind who thinks out of the box.

EZ-RIDER 05-19-2004 07:33 AM

Hey Troll;


Your F*ck up dude:mad: :mad: :mad:

GotRoad? 05-19-2004 07:45 AM

Now that's a highly articulate comment.

Lorenfb 05-19-2004 07:48 AM

Curve can produce a logical and data supported thread. Surprisely!
The responses are the same you see on the Porsche forum about chips.
I have for years discounted the value of chips and have indicated this
on my web site (www.systemsc.com) on the Technical & Problems pages.


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