Call me obsessive, but........

aap1966 · aap1966's Garage

What "sells" boxers?

For me it's the unusual engineering (telelever, boxer engine, shaft drive), practicality (ABS), unique looks and well thought out quality design. When I bought the 1100S I noticed the way the clutch / brake reservoirs were intergrated into the handle bars rather than being stuck on like an after-thought. Why aren't ALL bikes like that? I thought. The "Glued on Jam-jar look" may be cheaper to manufacture, but really looks pretty amateurish.
But now, all the new BMW 2004/05 models have lost the intergrated reservoirs. Is this a symptom of shortcuts in design and/or manufacture, and if so, what other (unseen) parts have been similarly affected on the new models??

Or, given I'm writing this at 00:21 AM, do I just need to get a life?

Steve Carlton · 08:04 AM

I think you're just obsessive.

Just kidding... Be a shame to lose the integrated reservoirs.

roger albert · 02-02-2005, 07:40 AM

Most folks wanted lighter beemers. You don't get that with big integrated castings. Nor do those large castings make any economies of scale sense for a small manuf like BMW. More integration is more cost, both in initial design, and in the replacement of integrated assemblies.. and _sometimes_ more weight. Plastic resevoirs allow easier inspection, don't corrode, and can be replaced separately when need.

Thanks god the expensive integrated stuff is going away. If you deal with stuff that's not as new, you begin to see the true cost of integration. It's high and heavy.

Anyway, you can get light and cheap, or heavily integrated. It's a personal preference for sure, but in most cases, it's one or the other.

tbsstunta · 02-02-2005, 08:32 AM

Well the press photo of the 1200RT in Cycleworld has the old reservoirs on it, and as far costs for a small manufacturer which costs more?

1. R&D and re-tooling for the new style.

2. Using the existing tooling, which is already payed for.

I would also think that on a brake system like power ABS that requires total control, having solid cast reservoirs would flex less than plastic ones and yield better results. Similar to rubber lines versus stainless steel lines.

roger albert · 02-02-2005, 10:10 AM

They use off the shelf or near off the shelf items from a brake component specialist, so they dont' retool completely at their cost.

Also, that completely ignores the weight standpoint, which is clearly their focus (observed, and their stated focus in the press)

> having solid cast reservoirs would flex less than plastic ones and yield better results.
> Similar to rubber lines versus stainless steel lines.

Not even VAGUELY similar. The resevoirs are not pressurized, Not one iota.

They don't do most of this stuff w/o good reason. Of course, whether their or my or aap's or the market's priorities actually align, is another question. Most everyone wants cheaper and lighter though, so it's hard to argue with.

I happen to like the new more standarized components. Makes repairs and upgrades more doable, physically and fiscally. Just one schmuck's opinion though

I can see how others might have other preferences.

JonyRR · 02-02-2005, 10:28 AM

how close are the OEM BMW 22MM bars to the 'standard' 7/8" bars most of the world (except hardley-dangerous) uses? I was dismayed to see, when I bought my S, the bars be a different diameter than what 'all the rest' use, although tis IS more common now with cast handlebars instead of tubular bars...if a standard 7/8" bar, the performance machine master cylinders and resivors would fit, as would a host of others. I still have a set of PM brake and clutch levers/master cylinders/resivors sitting on the shelf waiting for a home on 'standard' handlebars..looks like a long wait....

jclark · jclark's Garage

I'm with you aaap1966 - really like the 'integrated-ness' myself...
They prolly are a litttle heavier than off the shelf components, but they look much better.
I knew the bike weighed >500lbs. when I bought it. I *like* a bike that doesn't get blown off the road when passing a truck comming the other way.
And is kinda sporty, in an Adult kinda way...

jeff

roger albert · 02-02-2005, 07:55 PM

They 7/8 bars are enough larger that they foul the throttle of most tubes meant for 22mm bars. It can be sanded down a bit, but chrome doesn't reduce easily. I did it for my /6 when I wanted something between high and S bars by modifying some 7/8 Honda bars. But is was a LOT of work. Haven't tried it on newer BMW bars. Do we know if they're a nominal 22mm?

acidburn · 02-03-2005, 08:07 AM

HA ahahahahahah ha, you think your obsessive, i came across a killer dealio on a like new 03-BCR, SBX, know all about the bike, know the guy, know everything there is to know, delivered to my door step, i actually thought about buying it as a spare, killer dealio, great bike great deal,,,oh man i gotta do this, cant resist,,,, and i mean a great , bone stock,bike, did i jump, oh no, a friend in here needed a break to slide over his way, so we did. And it feels good.

VetteRacer · 02-03-2005, 08:21 AM

acid: An 03 BCR as a, spare? Must be nice

Im finally working on getting one as a main bike, a 99 at that. I will have a K100RS (and R90 maybe) as spare(s) though, which is more then needed, but damned if I am selling the K bike!

Would that be Jeffs new baby?
Matt

motoyoyo · 02-03-2005, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by VetteRacer
...but damned if I am selling the K bike!)

Matt

Ha! That's exactly the way I was thinking too. I had my K75S for 14 years and could really rip on it, or so I tought. After I bought the R11S, the Kbike sat for a year untill I finally took it out for a weekend ride. OMG, you won't believe how different (I'm being kind) it is from the S. I sold it immediately with no regrets. Consider your K a small savings account for those extra accesories you'll want for your new R11S down the road sometime.

Rattus · Rattus's Garage

Hi aap1966 - yeah I agree with your sentiment about the integrated reservoirs. I really like the neatness. The ones on the new K1200S & R1200RT just look easier to mess with on a whim, by some bozo walking past your bike when its parked somewhere. I have a friend with a ZX6R who came back to his bike to find his fluid caps (and fluid) gone... its made me a bit concerned on this issue.

VetteRacer · 02-03-2005, 01:41 PM

Scott: Ive ridden S's enough to know they are WAY ahead of the K bike in every aspect. But, I want to keep a spare bike for friends when they come to Vegas, as well as having a spare. If I dont sell the R90 its going to become my brothers training bike, and then a Cafe Racer..

The S i am getting is pretty much pimped out already, needs a chip, InDuct/SJBMW treatment.. Other then that its all cosmetic and internal motor.

Matt