Raising Fork Tube Questions

[renegade13]

Hello,

I've noticed several people have raised their fork tubes in the triple clamps so that they can make their low bars into high bars. I was wondering if the stock non-ABS brake cable is long enough to do this or is a longer cable required?

Also, does Wudo (sp.) still make the brackets that stop the bars from rotating? If not, does anyone else make a bracket? Are these brackets really even necessary?

Thanks for your help.

[roger albert]

usually snipping a cable tie or two, or rerouting, will allow the remount. Bracket not necessary

[SparkyBlue]

Does this also change the steering geometry, sharpening the angle. Turn any different?

[roger albert]

no, no, and no
this is a telelever

[acidburn]

i dont understand it must, raising the ride height sure does, are you sure Rog?

[JonyRR]

Hey Acid;
raising the ride height IN FRONT on a telelever requires lengthening the front SHOCK...raising or lowering the tubes WILL NOT change this value on a telelever machine. No front shock I know of has a ride height adjustment, but I did mine the 'hack' way a while back by adding a few thin stainless fender washers under the top mount of the front shock after I installed a -60 series-aspect-ratio front tire....I sourced very thin washers and this enabled me to fine-tune ride height in the front...now with my brand-new ohlins rear I can do both the front or back or both, although truth to tell, I think the OEM measurements are pretty spot-on. I COULD tell a difference with a stock-length front and a -60 series front tire, combined with a stock length rear shock and a 180/55....mostly a minor ground clearance issue, but the bike's seat height WAS a bit lower to the ground. (I don't drag hard parts on the street..if I touch something down on a public road I hang off a bit more as I HATE that 'lever-the-rear-tire-off-the-pavement-and-instantly-crash action)

[acidburn]

yup im seeing that now, been wroking on the Duc and MV too much i guess.
Looking at the BCR, i do think the stock setting is good also, still trying to dial in the settings on the BCR, maybe a test race i mean run later today if i dont nap too long.

[JonyRR]

'MV', huh? Hmmmmm.....'boy with the most toys', eh? Oh, well, it IS a cheap hobby compared to, say, hi-perf boats or airplanes. Another neighbor locally here has a no-shizt P-51 mustang at the local airport right across the bridge...now THAT's a spendy hobby.
'hi there..I have a Rolls-Royce Merlin in my airplane and I need a tuneup...how much will that be'?...'well, sir, our shop rate is $250.00 per hour....the flatrate book says a tuneup on that engine is....hmmm....$75,000....but we'll give you 10% off for cash'.....

[BMW Atlanta]

Renegade,......Suburban Machinery makes a kit to relocate the stock low bars to the top of the tripe and keeps them oriented. Very inexpensive and gets your low bars higher then the stock comfort bars that come on the standard S's.

As for the fork tube,.....you can slide that up, down all around and you will have done nothing to the ride height or rake. Ohlins will lengthen the shock by removing bumpstop material internally on the shaft which will give you a slightly longer stroke as well as a 1/2 - 3/4" taller ride height.

[roger albert]

That lengthening trick really only increases travel, and where one needs the preload to get a given sag. One has to decide if they really want the telelever proscribing a longer-than-normal arc. Using the bump stop for height is like using the preload for height. Only doable at cost of sag. Independent height adjustment via the clevis, or mounting method such as Jony or Lennie or others have done is the way to go.

And Acid, yes, I'm quite sure. A very old topic here. Remember, those fork tubes are just for hanging the controls and steering. They dont' any more effect suspension geometry than does the wheel in your car. In any event, with the extreme shock rate combination you're running and the guaranteed (and personally, undesired) larger than normal changes in trail (which is part of what the Telelever was designed to avoid) yours is certainly not a candidate for adding more front travel. Just say no.

As Bobby says, the low bars moved to the top actually give more rise than the factory hi/comfort bars. The SM kit locks them in place, but it is not needed. If one pinch bolt isn't enough to prevent rotation, then your'e in trouble anyway, as one pinch bolt is all that prevents the tube from rotating in the triple. i.e. why does the clip-on have to be more sturdily mounted than that which it mounts to? Of course, tying it to the triple is not a bad idea, as it keeps either potential location of slippage and rotation from being an issue, but it's just insurance.

[jweicht]

I've got low bars and ABS on my bike, but I thought I've read here before that only ABS bikes have a brake line long enough to snip ty-raps and convert to high bars, that if yours is non-ABS (like renegade says he has) you have to get a longer brake line.

As for the requirement to use a non-rotational device (like the Suburban Machinery items) if you put your low bars on top of the triple clamp, I had started a discussion on that a while back on this forum. The concensus was, and I agree, that this is just an OEM liability thing - in case some yahoo forgets to adequately tighten his bar clamps around the fork tubes. Many other type bikes have been operated for years with bars that clamp onto the fork tubes and can be rotated back & forth/up & down for comfort (remember the ol' clip-ons?).

[acidburn]

Super informative thread guys, thx for the details and repost, this is really good stuff, Rog as you know i am not Mr. geometry, it all makes sense and i am much clearer now. This is excellent info.

[acidburn]

my thinking was you have have a steeper forward lean?
More weight over the front wheel?

[BMW Atlanta]

Originally posted by roger albert
That lengthening trick really only increases travel, and where one needs the preload to get a given sag. One has to decide if they really want the telelever proscribing a longer-than-normal arc. Using the bump stop for height is like using the preload for height. Only doable at cost of sag. Independent height adjustment via the clevis, or mounting method such as Jony or Lennie or others have done is the way to go.

Have to disagree with part of that statement Roger. By removing internal bump stop material on an Ohlins front shock you do increase travel obviously, but that was not the goal, the goal was to match the length of the newer front Boxer Cup Front sport shocks which are 10mm longer then the standard Ohlins. The Ohlins have an adjustable preload collar and by lengthing the stroke you essentially loose preload. So adding 10mm to the preload setting and wala,......you have raise the front of the bike over 1/2" and kept the same sag and preload while adding 10mm of travel to the shock. This gave a great desired result and for a bigger guy like myself it made all the difference in the world to start out a little higher as I go into the turn.

[Trex]

Renegade 13 - back to your original concerns, I gather you are unhappy with the bars mounting below the triple clamp. You should have no difficulties moving the bars up over, on top, of the triple clamp.

Keep in mind a couple of things. With the bars above the triple clamp, you can raise those fork tubes quite a bit and your only limitation will be the bars banging into the windshield as it curves around and back (you believe us that none of this will effect the geometry of the front end, don't you?). Ride around with an allen wrench in your pocket (5mm?) and to make adjustments, just loosen the two bolts on the triple clamp and raise or lower the fork tubes to suit you. Don't worry about any tabs locking things in place: old race bikes had clip-ons held in place by bolts for years and nobody has ever been disqualified at The Isle Of Man for the lack of nibbons. Some would recommend that the bolts not be too tight anyway: snug them up, but in the event of a crash, the bars shouldl move a bit. I don't use lock-tite on those bolt threads because I am always fiddle'n with stuff like that and I have a routine of tightening nuts and bolts as a matter of course (an old habit from having old Brit bikes. I double clutch in cars, too). Be very carefull that when the handlebar is moved up top and you are moving things around and twisting the tubes about, DO NOT LET THAT HANDLEBAR SIT ON THE TRIPLE CLAMP WHEN YOU TWIST THE TUBES. If you do, you'll put a very nasty groove right into that nicely finished tiple clamp. Then you'll have to go out and buy the Carbon Fiber Triple Clamp Cover to cover up the hideous scar.

Anyway, even with the bars up top, you might still find yourself uncomfortable, looking for the bars to actually be back a bit. The answer is a set of barbacks that both elevate the bars and move them back. Do a search here for "barbacks" for pictures and more information about them. I just put some barbacks on and they work perfect. The Carbon Fiber Triple Clamp Cover looks pretty good, too.

[renegade13]

Thanks for all the info guys. I really appreciate it.

However, I'm a bit confused now. jweicht says that I will need a longer brake line when moving from below to above the triple clamps on my non-ABS bike, but roger says I don't. Could someone please clarify this discrepancy.

Thanks again.

[roger albert]

Exactly my point Bobby. As I said, youi're just changng where the preload collar needs to be to get a given desired preload and sag.
And you are gaining 10mm of travel, which if, charitiably, of dubious benefit. More room to flop around and vary trail over a greater range in not generally a plus on a sportbike. I take your point, and I think we're mostly saying the same thing. The difference is that I don't like the extra travel. There are much better ways to match the height, including crude but effective washers.

[roger albert]

Can't clarify perfectly, as they vary a bit in production. But I've moved mine, and several other peoples' and retained all stock parts. Many on the board here have too. Some have had trouble, but it seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

[JonyRR]

'There are much better ways to match the height, including crude but effective washers.'
see, great minds DO think alike. I looked at all those ways (I have a works performance front shock) and rejected them as too much trouble. I settled on thin stainless fender washers and with those I can vary front ride height by .100" increments...and it's cheap to do....an ohlins shock in the rear gives me about 12MM of positive (longer) adjustment, as the ollie is the same length as as the stocker when it's unadjusted.
now if I could only find a clutch alignment tool that wasen't OEM BMW and costs $40.00.....BTW, bobby, I ended up having a local clutch jobber reline my OEM clutch disc with some 'semi-aggressive' organic lining...not kevlar or ceramic, but supposed to break in quickly and last longer than what came off...we'll see, but it beats the $385.00 touratech part price tag....and doesn't 'need 5000 kilometers to break in' like the touratech ceramic ones supposedly do...

[roger albert]

What's wrong with a generic clutch alignment kit?
I use them for everything I work on except BMW.
In fact, with a bit of tyring, you can do a better
job with a ruler anyway. At least on airheads.