Very good new R11S review

[zzrwood]

Motorcycle Online has a new review of the R11S and some very nice things to say...
http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcbmw/00r1100s.html

Robert Wood
Brisbane, Australia

[JeffD]

It's about time somebody in the media liked the R11S. Not that it really matters what anyone else thinks as long as we are happy, but I have to admit it is kind of nice to read a glowing review once in awhile. Jeff

[Henrik]

Over here in the UK this weeks MCN rag also recently had a favorable R1100S review. Mostly they commented about the stiffer Y2K suspension. Also they are importing no more ABS or centerstand S models to the UK. They still give the bike a low rating of 83%. They brits are more into rash & flash and R1s & R6s are the best sellers here. BMW is trying very hard to change it's "old man's bike" image here in the UK. Even the article writer commented it's more skill than bike that seperates a R1 and R1100S owner (at least on the street). On the track the writer probably had a few valid complaints, since he was constantly touching down the mag head covers.

[dfaber]

Henrik wrote:
> no more ABS or centerstand S models to the UK.

That is pretty amazing for BMW. Either they really are intent on changing their image or they are just giving up on the bike.

When the model was introduced it got rave reviews. Probably the journos wanted to repay BMW for all the free beer and viener schnitzel (and frauliens?) handed out at the press launch, given on BMW's dime at some 5-star resort in the Berkshires, free rooms included. Cycle World's cover story "Kickin' S" asked rhetorically "Is this the world's best Sport Twin?" Yawn.... To be fair, they had the integrity to demand a 50lb weight reduction and more horsepower. Throw in better shocks and I would agree.

Within a few months the BMW was placing near the tail end in comparos with DUC ST2, Hon VFR, and Trumpet Sprint RS.

[dfaber]

OB Motorcycle.com article... Those guys aren't really even moto journos, though interesting reading if you want the average schmuck's opinion. The article talks about "keeping up with a brand new GSXR750." C'mon. I'll race any GSXR from here to, say, Wyoming, but I've rode ZX6Rs on the track and, well, no way.

[markjenn]

I think the reviewer was trying to get across the idea that the R11S is as fast in "real-world" situations, where the extra performance of something like a GSRX just can't be tapped. On the track (or on track-like high-speed roads) virtually any Japanese 600 (let alone 750s and liter-bikes) would definitely leave the R11S gasping.

And I think there is something about the R11S's mid-range oriented power characteristics, engine braking, telelever, and weight that encourages smoothness and provides incredible stability on many roads. This smoothness and stability instills rider confidence and the ability to keep cornering speeds high. And rider confidence, well-place or not, has more to do with cornering speeds than the bike. I've also never ridden a bike that is less fatiguing to ride - it simply requires less effort for me to ride the R11S briskly than bikes like my R1.

Or it could be even simpler: It may be just that the bike isn't quite so fast, so you don't have the ability to squirt the bike into situations where it doesn't belong. When you have lots of power, you tend to use it on the straights, which means that you've got to climb onto the brakes at the corner entrances. This upsets the chassis and it is tricky to get the timing right. Miss a couple of corner entrance speeds and the guy in front of you is gone. On the R11S, I hardly ever use the brakes - I just twist the throttle to speed up and let off to go slow. One less thing to screw up at the corner entrance. Less power can be better.

In any event, I agree with the jist of the article: on unfamiliar roads at brisk riding speeds there is no easier bike for me to ride. Or put another way, if I'm 60-miles of unfamiliar, tight, twisties away from someplace where I can go as fast as I want, I think I'd rather be on the R11S than any other bike.

I also don't think anyone can appreciate the different riding style of the R11S unless you ride one for a couple days. If you try and use a Japanese 600 style of riding with a R11S, it feels like a pretty awful bike. Every VFR and 600 sportbike pilot who has taken brief rides on my R11S has come away shaking his head wondering how I could spend $16K for this POS. Maybe they're right and I'm just seeing the world through BMW rose-colored glasses. If so, I'm enjoying it and don't care.

Sorry for the long diatribe and thanks for listening.

- Mark

[dfaber]

Mark wrote:
>Sorry for the long diatribe and thanks for listening

Not at all, much appreciated and obliged.

Let me add that for a gorgeous day riding a great road when you are up for it, there is nothing like a freshly polished and waxed Ducati 4V. Though a Japanese sport bike is up there, it is really a second choice to the Duc on those rare afternoons when the Motorcycle rags send out their photographers. The same is true, even more true, on any track day.

But any good motorcycle is Nirvana when the sun shines down on a curvy two-lane you have found all to yourself. Certainly the 1100S included. To argue over which is better in such conditions, or which might shave a few tenths off your lap times, is mouse-flogging. Don Canet says this, Mitch Boehm says that...: academics.

The unreported but accurate test of a motorcycle is when you stumble out of some lonely cafe, look up and see the storm clouds gathering red-rimmed in the last few rays of the day's sun, and glance down the road towards your destination, 120 miles away with some dodgy patches of concrete in between.

At that moment I will take my BMW "S" and no other.

Also, I qualify my earlier posted Wyoming race challenge. No Haybusas.

[markjenn]

Funny you mention the Hayabusa. I've ridden a couple days on these beasts and came away mightly impressed. The Bus makes a delightful sport-tourer.

The engine is simply awesome and is much less violent and intimidating than my R1. It just has smooth artesian-well power everywhere. Passing is a joke. The throttle becomes a simple speed reostat as the time it takes to go from one speed to another becomes insignificant.

What also impresses me is the airflow management and how stable the bike is at speed. No buffeting, just smooth air. (Now you have to be careful this smooth air doesn't rip your arm or head off if you get out of the tuck at speed, but it is still smooth.) Suzuki really did their homework on airflow. I had a Bus briefly up to around 180 indicated (probably more like 165 actual) and it seemed much, much more stable and secure than my R1 feels at 140.

It is heavy, but no heavier than an S.

Fit givi hard bags, heated grips, heli bars, and good tank bag and you'd have a hell of a high-speed sport-tourer.

God help you with your license though. This things just makes a complete joke of our speed limits. I've always heard the Harley crowd say that one reason they like their bikes is that they are fun to ride near the posted speed limits. I never really understood this, but after being on the Bus a couple days, I felt the same way about returning to the S - finally I was back on a bike that was fun to ride at something approaching reasonable speeds.

- Mark

[dfaber]

I still miss my cut-down, hopped-up Sportster. Taking that thing out to the "ton" was like freaking flying. I can almost read the paper doing triple digits on the R1100S.

[roger albert]

Wow, couldn't agree with those last posts more. My old /6s give me quite a sensation
of speed, even below triple digit, say, at 90. (though the one with the various braces feels half decent up to 120 actual) The /2 is a blast at any speed. The duc is somewhere between. Whereas the S, well, if I were more dexterous, I'm sure I could do one handed needlepoint at 120. I guess to me, the S feels like the 'busa does to you. i.e. the S is the one that I tend to want to run triple digit when I really should be at 60-70. All relative I suppose. More and more (maybe just aging) I believe the old maxim about it being more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow. Other than marveling at the effortlessness, I'm not sure what I'd do with the 'busa. Nevertheless, if a wealthy benefactor delivers one, I'll think of something. Maybe just rip the fairing off???

later
roger

[mlist]

Everyone has made some excellent points. Fully agree with Mark (and MO) that the S is in its element on the twisties that we deal with in real life. My last 3 bikes have been an R1100RSL, Triumph T595 and an ST1100...and with each I tried to find the right bike for daily commuting and weekend twisities (ok, the ST1100 was stretching it..what a handful!). But I think I've found the best compromise with the S. It hangs the the sportbikes (on real roads) and hits the highway just as well. I've had several problems mechanically (in for 3 weeks at the 6K checkup and still isn't right) and wish it had 15 more HP and 50lbs less to be the perfect sport tourer (for me anyway).
Dale

[markjenn]

Dale, what's your mechanical issues?

- Mark

[jimjib]

I have an 1100gs and have always been a twin guy. When I would look at these guys riding the 4 cylinder sport bikes, I just couldn't figure it out the attraction. Lets see, you crumple yourself into a ball, over a twitchy peaky plastic covered blob, it just didn't connect...that is, until I got my hayabusa.

Now, as much as I loved the GS, it just bores me to ride it anymore. The Busa makes more torque at 4000 rpm that it nearest competition does at its maximum...it just pulls like a freight train and the
handling, is absolutely spot on. Super stable in high speed sweepers yet very very light handling. Super comfortable (600 mile days are no problem) too. Its just a damn space ship...get a ride one and you will be hooked.

All that said, I still love twins and when I got a chance to ride the S I knew it was the perfect twin for me and eventually will own one. The only thing that keeps me from trading in the GS tomorrow, is that my wife really likes the back seat riding position and wont get on the back of anything that looks like a sport bike, damn! So the only thing left to do , is to "cafe racerize" the GS. First on the list is a better
sounding exhaust and then some super bike or clip on type (I know this sounds crazy) handlebars. So my question is, does anyone know of a good GS message board? Thanks.

[Sawtooth]

I once read in Bike a quote about the R1100S, it went something like this "The percentage of the trottle of a bike you can use equals the fun factor." I think this speaks very well to the point that our S's are enjoyable at every speed unlike bikes like an R1 and Bus'a.

We all say we would enjoy a ride on an R1, but honestly who he isn't afraid of raw power of that bike. What worries me the most is your tanktop, flip-flop wearing rider rocketing down i95. I'm concerned about his and every one around him safety, and how his action reflect upon our as riders. Maryland has begun a "crackdown" aggresive riders: which I fear will become all "sport" riders.

What my point? Hell I don't have one.

------------------
<-> SawTooth <->

[moose]

Late reply to one of Mark's comments re the Harley crowd.

I own a '81 Electra Glide, w/ some engine mods. It is a blast to ride at or around the speed limit. And, it can really hang in the corners, up until it's sending sparks from the floorboards. I almost get my knee down on it. I love my R11S, but it demands to be driven at higher speeds. I could only imagine what a Hyabusa would do. But back to the Harley. It's in my basement awaiting some adjustments to the trans, and it is the constant adjusting that prompted me to get the BMW. Sometimes you just want to ride, and the BMW doesn't let me down.

[jimjib]

The neat thing about the Busa is that it has the torque of a harley and the best top end in the universe. There just isn't any other "stock" motor on the planet that makes power like this but, performance isn't the total story. As I sit here, the Busa is in the shop after the cam chain tensioner
went bye bye....ouch, only 15,000 miles on the clock. I have had 3 beemers, K100 , R100GS and the 1100gs and all have had over 45,000 miles with no major problems...very rare in a jap sport bike. If I could have only one bike, it would be a beemer and defiantly the 1100s,

[jgrm1]

Back to the article...Has anyone ever seen an article - with performance stats - for the lighter, non-ABS R1100S? If so, where can I find it?

Thanks,
Jeff

[roger albert]

Hi,

I've never seen any back to back comparison. Given the large variance in HP/Torque figures from bike to bike in normal production, and the relatively small weight difference ( a slightly larger battery and ABS don't weigh more than a percent or two of GVW) and that even rider to rider (weight) variance is large compared to the ABS/nonABS difference, I'd say the difference is lost in the noise in the real world. I'm not even talking about rider skill differences.

In short, I'd guess some significant percentage of ABS models (not even counting the rider) have the same or better HP:Wt ratios as the non ABS. Naturally, the best nonABS will be slightly better than the best ABS, but its a pretty small difference.

The weight might matter a small small amount on the track, but from an HP standpoint, there's just too much individual machine to machine variance for it to matter much

just my .03
later
roger


oh yeah, responding to dfabs comment earlier in the thread:

> OB Motorcycle.com article... Those guys > aren't really even moto journos, though > interesting reading if you want the average > schmuck's opinion.

TOO TRUE, they were just some of the least computer illiterate, and most net savy bike enthusiasts without jobs preventing them from devoting their full time to it. Now that I think about it, I may be envious, but I don't have a lot of respect for most of the writing there. Sort of:
"Beavis and Butthead(s) do Motojournalism."
(with the focus more on Moto than journal)

I shouldn't be too harsh. They've started a good thing. I do some work for a pub too, and I have a TON to learn. I just don't try to pass myself off as an experienced professional (though I'd like to be one someday) Its just that the majority of you guys on this board are more knowledgeable than those guys. Read it and enjoy, but don't put too much stake in the reviews etc.
(or in anything I say, for that matter
later
roger


[This message has been edited by roger albert (edited 07-27-2000).]

[jgrm1]

Hey Roger,

I hear what you are saying and agree, if you ran a 2 sample T-test on acceleration data from both a non-ABS and ABS R1100S, there may not be a statistical difference in acceleration for the reasons you listed above.

The consensus, from all the articles I have read since the bike was introduced, is that ABS & Heated Grips adds 40 lbs. to the bike (wet weight 545 vs. 505). This 40 lbs is mounted up high, which could contribute to a sense of porkiness. Even the 'light' model really isn't.

Under ideal testing conditions (dry, smooth surface; special cause variation removed), I would not be surprised to see the 40 lbs. become apparent in braking and handling exercises.

I still would like to see one of the trustworthy publications test a non-ABS R1100S for once. I would especially like them to test a black non-ABS model, so I can have an article on MY bike.

-Jeff

[roger albert]

Hi,

I hear what you're saying. I too have a black one w/o ABS. I'm very skeptical about the 40lb delta though. I've seen that figure published early on, but that wasn't exactly what went into production, from my understanding. That included the non-ABS spec'd not only w/o heated grip and with a smaller battery, but also with a smaller alternator and no centerstand. It also included the diff between with and w/o bag mounts. All of that might have approached a 40lb diff, but I don't believe that's at all the case now (and yes, I think 40 lb is a big deal, but not the small diff that exists now.) Last time I saw that figure it was more like 15lb. Significant, but just barely perceptible as a seat-of-the-pants thing.

later
roger