Front wheel replacement

[pdonnell]

Took my bike in for a front tire change and after a lengthy inspection the dealer noted the "race" went out in my front wheel causing my front bearings to move around in the hub. Cause? Apparently the powder coating process done 1.5 years ago!! I've since had 4 tires replacements then and never noted this problem. They indicate they've seen it before but I can easily see stress of the wheel/bearings doing it too when the wheel hits something hard. (but not hard enough to bend the rim) Any experience with this out there? You know a front rim is $500.00 ughhh!

[turnerm]

Last year I had to replace front+rear rims and tires. Cost a fortune.
A pothole was to blame.
I have 2 dented rims that I will eventually send out to fix. Its nice to have spares, but Im wondering if fixing these rims is smart.

[rzleo]

looks like it's time for lighter rims. Idon't know who makes them but there out there. After powder coating you'll be in over 500

[JPF]

i can get PVM's here in the states.let me know if you're interested.



this is the six-spoke, machined model in Magnesium... World GP quality rim. over $2000.00 per set. less than half the weight of stock. lots of colors (silver, white, black, gold). Best wheel in the world according to most GP teams. can be powdercoated to suit.



this is the five spoke forged magnesium or aluminum wheel. about 1800.00 a set and just a hair more than 1/2 the stock weight in Magnesium or a few ounces more in aluminum. superbly strong and beautiful.

[Rapt]

They're gorgeous, but wow! expensive.

[JPF]

not really considering what stock wheels cost... do a set of stock wheels and you're at 1300.00... $500.00 - 600.00 more for magnesium seems like a deal to me. especially since they are probably the single biggest perfomance improvement you can make to the bike. even in aluminum for 1650.00 they are a deal at about 60% the weight of stock.

the six spoke front rim in magnesium weighs 2.2 kilograms or 4.85 lbs. ever lift the stock rim??? and it's six spoke, not 5 so it's stronger.

they are really sweet and worth every penny.

j

[dfaber]

Race rims are usually too soft for street use. I would check into that before buying them.

[Pete Osta]

Anything special needed to mount the brake rotors?
Pete

[Rapt]

JPF: You're right its not that much more if you already have to replace them, BUT just for the weight loss, its more than I can justify with my riding skill.

BTW I'd like your opinion on my tire/rim size thread if you have a minute.

[JPF]

dfaber... you're on crack. these wheels are SO MUCH stronger than the stock wheels you wouldn't believe it.

i hit a pot hole with the 6-spoke magnesium wheel that was at least 8 inches deep amd it had a dead right angle edge. i was going 65 or 70 and had 35 lbs of tyre pressure (cold) in the tyre, it almost knocked my teeth out and the wheel is perfect... even under x-ray. i went through three 5.5" stock rear rims last year usually running 38-40 lbs of tyre pressure... talk about soft, ****ty rims... BMW wishes they could make a rim this well.

next time you bend a rim let me know, i'll sell you my stock ones and i'll use the $$$ as a down payment on another set of PVM's.

[JPF]

pete,

they are a dead swap out for the stock rims... just replace the bolts on the rotors as they are intended for one time use.

when they arrive you just pull the old wheel off... pull the rotors and mount them to the new wheel and put the tyres on. make sure you balance your new wheels with everything wounted (tyre, rotors, etc.) and then yer back on the road.

[dfaber]

Performance Machine makes race wheels and street wheels and they warn customers not to use their race wheels on the street precisely because they are too easily bent. I think that this is something you should check out before you buy track wheels and put them on the street. If PVMs are strong enough for this use, great, but I am not on crack (and I am not a PVM salesman).
GP teams don't worry about pot holes and they budget a couple of dozen wheels per bike anyway. Chicago has the worst roads in America that I know of and I have yet to damage my stock wheels in three years. But that is anecdotal crap just like your story.
Anyway, you should also find out if the wheels are clear-coated. And, really, I don't think the PVMs in the above photos look near as good as the stockers, but that's just an opinion.

[This message has been edited by dfaber (edited 06-28-2001).]

[JPF]

I just happen to race with the son of the owner of performance machine and they stopped making racing wheels because of the cost of making them.

the reason they don't recommend magnesium for street use is for insurance and secondly, magnesium wheels CAN NOT be DOT approved, even though they are stronger. anyone will tell you that for these reasons. PVM is globally acknowledged as the best wheel manufacturer in the world. i would replace stock with either the aluminum variant or magnesium in a heartbeat. i would do the aluminum ones if DOT is a concern.

but if you ask any Ducati owner who's done the magnesium switch they will tell you that they have had no problems. i have a friend with a 996 sps and he's got marchesini's on it (not nearly as nice as the PVM's by his account) and he said he's never had an issue and he's in NYC... worst streets in the country for riding and rim replacement.

[roger albert]

Damn it, here I am fence sitting again.

While I don't think dfab's on crack, (nor do I find it a contructive argument) the PVM's are certainly not too soft for street use. I'd sooner attribute that to the stock rims. Given the metallurgy, the magnesiums are sometimes too hard/brittle/fracture-prone for the street, but certainly not too soft.

The fracture prone nature of mag, especially after exposed to corrosion, can be a problem, but not the softness. That much is absolutely not anecdotal (nor the DOT issues, if one cares - personally I don't - I refuse to pay double to triple the cost of car brakelines with a DOT stamp too)

As for looks, I could see the lower PVMs in silver or black, but would rather gouge my one eyes out than look at the gold ones on my S I'd sure love a set on the duc though.

For the street, I'd recommend coughing up the extra $500 and going for the double spoke Aluminum PVMs. Best bang for the buck. If I dent another, I'll certainly do that.

Even if you were shelling out the whole cost, its the most bang for the buck in handling, after new shocks. Sure, lots of bucks, but a lot of bang too. Especially given the truly obese nature of our rims.

That's the problem with the beemer rims. Worst of both worlds. Heavy and still not robust.

Rapt, don't sell yourself short. I'm pretty slow by some standards, yet find the rims to make a large difference. At higher speeds, the improvement is probably even larger than for shocks (above 80mph or so imo)

Try light and heavy rims if you ever get the chance. One quick adjustment to line on a fast sweeper and you'll be convince. Kind of like the difference between a good passenger and a newbie leaning the wrong way. It's immense.

later
roger

[t0land]

Let me ask a question (that may sound stupid) do you have to replace both wheels at the same time?

JPF can I get a phone number or URL

------------------
Matthew

[JPF]

t0land, no of course you don't have to do both at once but I would if you are thinking about it. the wheels are so much lighter that it makes a huge difference in the wat the bike handles. the bike turns MUCH easier and MUCH, MUCH faster. suspension works better as there is much less mass to fight when it's trying to keep your tyre in contact with the pavement and power delivery is dramatically improved as the rear wheel spins much easier with all that weight gone.

my e-mail is jonathan@graymatterproductions.com
if you have any questions.

jpf

[CarlosT]

Originally posted by JPF:
...even in aluminum for 1650.00 they are a deal at about 60% the weight of stock.

j

Man what are the stock wheels made out of? Cheddar cheese and lead? JPF can you provide some weight numbers stock vs PVMs?

[JPF]

yes i think the stock wheels are made of some strange composite material called "chead-ium". it's a unique blend of cheader cheese, depleated uranium and lead all mixed together in the softest, heaviest blend known to man and then molded into our wheels!

i never weighed the stock wheels alone but I have the numbers from the factory. the front wheel on stock is about a million pounds. the PVM is a mere 2.2 kilos.

Here's the factory propaganda on the traditional 5 - spoke variant:

"In compliance with the quality standards of the aerospace industry, this wheel represents a milestone in the development of motorcycle wheels.

Completely CNC-processed, it is more stable and rigid than any traditional cast wheel. At the same time its clearly optimized weight offers yet another advantage over conventional technology. The street - homologated aluminium version is up to 30% lighter than comparable cast-aluminium wheels. What the forged magnesium racing model can do borders on the unimaginable. This 3.5 x 17" wheel only weighs about 2.2 kg."

the 6 - spoke racing wheel is even lighter.

these are magnesium and are not DOT Approved as Magnesium is not a DOT approved material for wheels (the same way europeans have better lights than we do too... fuc&!%g bureaucrats.

They also make a really nice set of replacement clip-ons for the bike so you can toss the lead filled bars that came with the bike.

They have developed a special racing part that allows riders to find the saddle position that is right for them, making the race more "relaxed". A few hand movements are all it takes to set an angle of 5 to 12.5 degrees. Another highlight of this part is that a hinge is all that is needed to mount it on the cantilever fork simple and hassle-free-making it especially suitable for use in long-distance racing. Made of forged aluminium, this handlebar clamp is, of course, stable enough for even the most extreme loads. It is available for the BMW R1100S now. Cool huh?

hope this helps,

jonathan