Pelican Parts
Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   Pelican Parts Forums > BMW Forums > BMW Technical Forums > BMW R1100S / R1200S Tech Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Reply
Biggest Member
 
gigantic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,478
Garage
Send a message via AIM to gigantic Send a message via Yahoo to gigantic
ot Buell XBRR Illegal?

Dueling Boilerplate: Is The Buell XBRR Legal In AMA Formula Extreme?
undeniable fact: there is no such animal as an XBRR streetbike

by dean adams www.amasuperbike.com

Wednesday, January 25, 2006
The 2007 Buell XBRR which debuted this week is an interesting bike, no doubt, and signals a serious intent by Buell to become competitive in racing. It is assumed that this long-rumored model will be Buell's entry into the 2006 Formula Extreme class— (it's nearly the biggest rumor in racing that Buell has Jeremy McWilliams, Pascal Picotte and Mike Ciccotto lined up to race this motorcycle in Formula Extreme).

However, the boilerplate attached to the press release announcing the XBRR and the AMA Pro Racing rule book would seem to be at odds.

The 2005 AMA Pro Racing rule book states on page 21 under the heading of Equipment Standards--Formula Xtreme: AMA Formula Xtreme motorcycles are based on production four-stroke street motorcycles.

And, on page 27 of the 2005 AMA Pro Racing rule book it states: Formula Xtreme competition is restricted to motorcycles (engines and frames) produced for US street use and available in the US through retail dealers.

Buell PR says that the XBRR is "a modified XB engine and chassis".
There is no such animal as an XBRR streetbike.
Clearly, to race Formula Extreme in 2005, a motorcycle needed to start life as a production street model.

For example, when Jake Zemke's Honda Formula Extreme bike goes to the grid, it is clearly based on the CBR600RR streetbike.

However, on the bottom of the press release announcing the new Buell, the following is stated, "It is illegal for anyone to ride this motorcycle on public roads. The Buell XBRR motorcycle does not meet NHTSA or EPA regulations for on road use. This motorcycle may only be used on closed courses."

The Buell press release infers that this XBRR is a new model, "a limited-edition production racing motorcycle designed exclusively for closed course competition". Using the phrase "designed exclusively" in this context would seem to mean this is not a hopped-up machine based on a production streetbike. Buell PR says that the XBRR is "a modified XB engine and chassis".

There is no such animal as an XBRR streetbike.

Erion Racing's Kevin Erion had a copy of the 2006 AMA Pro Racing rule book and said both passages noted above read virtually the same in the 2006 editon.

Erion, whose two riders, Aaron Gobert and Josh Hayes, will race the Formula Extreme class in 2006, was disturbed that the Buell XBRR may be raced in Formula Extreme, "Based on the language in Buell's press release, their bike is not legal for the Formula Extreme class. The rule book states two times that motorcycles for the FX class are based on production street motorcycles; it's like the first sentence," Erion said.

If the new Buell is legal for Formula Extreme, it may fundamentaly change the class. Previously a Formula Extreme racer had to start life as a production streetbike. Now, if the new Buell is legal, it's a sign to the other manufacturers that they can assemble 50 lot kit bikes—for which there is no clearly discernable production streetbike—to race Formula Xtreme. For example, what's to stop Ducati from building a short production run, "designed exclusively", Franken-racer consistening of a 999R or 749 chassis powered by their 1000cc air-cooled, four-valve engine, to race the Daytona 200 with?

AMA Pro Racing sources said this week that based on the fact that the rules for an air-cooled Twin in Formula Extreme are so wide, and allow for so many modifications, that it is their belief that the XBRR is legal for the Formula Extreme class.

The relevant question seems to be this: where is the XBRR streetbike this machine is based on?

Old 01-25-2006, 02:11 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #1 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St Charles Il
Posts: 1,417
Keep bending, changing, or ignoring the rules until one of those dinosaurs has a chance to win. NHRA did that with prostock. There is such a huge fan base of lemmings, that they (orgs) will bend over and do nasty things to reach that fan base.
Someone on WERA posted something like " it's not what you want to race, it's what fans will pay to see race." Kind of makes a very good point, eh?
Old 01-25-2006, 03:08 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #2 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St Charles Il
Posts: 1,417
about right

Old 01-25-2006, 03:21 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #3 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: WI
Posts: 779
It’s funny to watch Beemer guys make fun of Buells. I supose when Buell doesn't make it in Formula Extreme, they'll just have to start there own series.
Old 01-25-2006, 05:31 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #4 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St Charles Il
Posts: 1,417
Hey now, I ride a Aprilia cup bike. I keep looking this one to go with my RS 250. http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74416
HWT twins here I come?

I think the Buel will be in FX. It is good for the sport and the big twins do sound very nice at the track.

Hey Anton, see you at RA for the AMA races?
Old 01-25-2006, 05:52 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #5 (permalink)
Registered
 
SCOTTinNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Metuchen, NJ
Posts: 1,553
"what's to stop Ducati from building a short production run, "designed exclusively", Franken-racer consistening of a 999R or 749 chassis powered by their 1000cc air-cooled, four-valve engine, to race the Daytona 200 with?"
--------------------------------

Build one, please!!
Old 01-25-2006, 05:59 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #6 (permalink)
 
Registered
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: St Charles Il
Posts: 1,417
more fun

Old 01-25-2006, 06:14 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #7 (permalink)
Registered
 
Dbltailexit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SLO county
Posts: 348
thanks 5axis- that's funny x two ingmar
__________________
Lotus 7 replica, 4 wheeled motorcycle.
Old 01-25-2006, 07:57 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #8 (permalink)
Registered
 
SCOTTinNJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Metuchen, NJ
Posts: 1,553
I guess that's as close as we'll get...
Old 01-26-2006, 04:51 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #9 (permalink)
Moderator
 
roger albert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Austin, TX. USA
Posts: 11,605
> "what's to stop Ducati from building a short production run, "designed exclusively", Franken-racer consistening of a 999R or 749 chassis powered by their 1000cc air-cooled, four-valve engine, to race the Daytona 200 with?"

Nothing. They should.

Bodies bend rules all the time. Plus, the XBRR is no further from a regular one than Zemkes is from a regular 600RR. Note that Honda was the only factory FX bike and they were the only bike in the race. I think Buell can claim it to be a regular XB with the allowable type mods pre-delivered/installed. I dont' think it bends the rules as much as it appears to on the surface.
The FX bikes are indeed pretty extreme in allowed mods.
Anyone note they instantly sold out at the dealers meeting.
I think it will be good for the series.
__________________
99 R11S w/ BBP, InDuct, Öhlins, PVMs, Braking, SJ-Filter, ZTech, HIDs
D675 R90Cafe R60/2 M900 SV650-SS CBR150R XR125 & CRF175 Motards


OnRoad OffRoad Cycles, Austin, TX: BMW, Ital, Suspension, Electrics
Dealer for K-Tech, JRI, GP Suspension, Penske, Öhlins, RaceTech, Elka, Wilbers, IKON & Works
www.ororcycle.com

CMRA EXPERT #841
Various Formula 5, 6 & 7 championships 2006-2012

A3, Navigator,
Old 01-26-2006, 08:11 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #10 (permalink)
time wasting tosser
 
Highlander179's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: oHIo
Posts: 2,608
Quote:
Originally posted by roger albert
Anyone note they instantly sold out at the dealers meeting.
I think it will be good for the series.
I noticed and I agree. I'm wondering what the dealer mark-up is going to be, or if there is going to, all of the sudden, be 25 dealers racing FX???
Old 01-26-2006, 08:39 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #11 (permalink)
Living on borrowed time!
 
JonyRR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tacoma, WA, USA
Posts: 7,020
paint the thing ornag and black while you're at it, please. Maybe put Jay on it.
__________________
Better a has-been than a wanna-be

'I am John Andrew Moffett of the Clan Moffat and by god I live, love, seek, fail, grieve and die as I so choose and I call no man master save me'.
Old 01-26-2006, 08:47 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #12 (permalink)
 
Registered
 
repoe3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: VA-DC area
Posts: 5,405
Quote:
Originally posted by roger albert
> "what's to stop Ducati from building a short production run, "designed exclusively", Franken-racer consistening of a 999R or 749 chassis powered by their 1000cc air-cooled, four-valve engine, to race the Daytona 200 with?"

Nothing. They should.

Bodies bend rules all the time. Plus, the XBRR is no further from a regular one than Zemkes is from a regular 600RR. Note that Honda was the only factory FX bike and they were the only bike in the race. I think Buell can claim it to be a regular XB with the allowable type mods pre-delivered/installed. I dont' think it bends the rules as much as it appears to on the surface.
The FX bikes are indeed pretty extreme in allowed mods.
Anyone note they instantly sold out at the dealers meeting.
I think it will be good for the series.
agree with that...FX bike can have modified frames, and lots of other things changes...i recall zemke's FX bike at laguna two years ago have massively different intakes than even the factory boys. without checking, i thought they can even change up to 40% of the frame, etc. you would easily see the differences when you compared a stock bike to an FX bike...and not just stuff you bolt on/off, but structural changes, etc.

repoe3
__________________
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
2009 GSXR 750
2004 Tuono
2004 R1100SBX
Old 01-26-2006, 08:56 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #13 (permalink)
time wasting tosser
 
Highlander179's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: oHIo
Posts: 2,608
The difference being that Zemke's bike started out as a "production-based streetbike" as defined by the rules and then was modified. Not modified by the factory and then produced as a "Race ONLY, not legal for street use" machine which is outside the rules.

I'm all for more competition. "Let the boys race 'em", I say
Old 01-26-2006, 09:18 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #14 (permalink)
Registered
 
repoe3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: VA-DC area
Posts: 5,405
Quote:
Originally posted by Highlander179
The difference being that Zemke's bike started out as a "production-based streetbike" as defined by the rules and then was modified. Not modified by the factory and then produced as a "Race ONLY, not legal for street use" machine which is outside the rules.

I'm all for more competition. "Let the boys race 'em", I say
that is you paraphrasing...there is nothing stated about the factory not being able to mod the bike rather then a race team. you CAN buy an XB bike and make the same mods to it and its legal...why not cut to the chase and buy the bike ready to go? aside from it not having a VIN on it...how different is that? an FX bike can't (but probably could be) registered either.

repoe3
__________________
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
2009 GSXR 750
2004 Tuono
2004 R1100SBX
Old 01-26-2006, 09:31 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #15 (permalink)
time wasting tosser
 
Highlander179's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: oHIo
Posts: 2,608
you're right, but there is language that states it needs to be a street bike

AMA ProRAcing Rulebook
page 21
Quote:
C. Formula Xtreme®
AMA Formula Xtreme motorcycles are based on production fourstroke street motorcycles.
page 24
Quote:
5. The following items may not be altered from the originally
approved model on all engine types except as noted:
a. Stock main frame
1. Frame must display vehicle identification number.
page 27
Quote:
h. Approval of Formula Xtreme® Motorcycles
1. Only approved motorcycles may be used in Formula Xtreme
competition.
2. Formula Xtreme competition is restricted to motorcycles (engines and frames) produced for US street use and
available in the US through retail dealers.
and from Buell's own press release it is not...

Buell Press Release
Quote:
a limited-edition production racing motorcycle designed exclusively for closed course competition
Quote:
It is illegal for anyone to ride this motorcycle on public roads. The Buell XBRR motorcycle does not meet NHTSA or EPA regulations for on road use. This motorcycle may only be used on closed courses.
but like I said, I think they should be allowed, and I think BMW should make 50 chain-driven R1200S production racers to make my interest level a little higher in AMA FX, because right now, I'm not as interested as I should be.

sorry for paraphrasing.
Old 01-26-2006, 10:04 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #16 (permalink)
Living on borrowed time!
 
JonyRR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Tacoma, WA, USA
Posts: 7,020
the bottom line here is that there either are rules that all interested parties abide by or not.
the rules don't have to make sense.
the rules don't have to be fair.
but if there ARE going to be rules, the attending parties SHOULD be bound to abide by them, or toss the frackin' rules and go commando.
Of course, the corrolary to this is that it's a fact of life in racing to 'never get behind on your cheating'...and it didn't start here, nor will it finish here.
I wish Buell all the luck. I wish they'd source or design a modern engine and I'd be proud to buy 'merikan, but not as long as they use a farm implement as a power module.
__________________
Better a has-been than a wanna-be

'I am John Andrew Moffett of the Clan Moffat and by god I live, love, seek, fail, grieve and die as I so choose and I call no man master save me'.
Old 01-26-2006, 10:12 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #17 (permalink)
Registered
 
RC51DRAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 552
Agreed, not that they're right but everyone else cheats, Buell is just more blatant. I guess it's not cheating if you don't get caught. But I for one will go to those race meets to see the Buells not the CBRs etal.
__________________
2001 RC51 and 2004 R1200GS (RIPs)
2006 HP2
2008 HP2 Sport (mulling it over)

aka: SQD8R
Old 01-26-2006, 11:40 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #18 (permalink)
Registered
 
repoe3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: VA-DC area
Posts: 5,405
we all know there are rules and there are politics. even race bikes and off-road bikes have vin numbers. rossi's m1 had a number on the frame...doesnt mean i can register it. and this bike IS based on a streetable bike that you CAN buy from a dealer network. this is not that much of a stretch IMO. not that any of this will make the thing competitive or reliable. but heck, they could easily have a spec class...call it the tractor cup.

repoe3
__________________
I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
2009 GSXR 750
2004 Tuono
2004 R1100SBX
Old 01-26-2006, 11:52 AM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #19 (permalink)
Registered
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 705
The factory supported race teams that ran CCS cried enough that a 100 + lb. BMW w/ 80 RWHP was spanking their $5000 motors (per weekend) and 380lb. dry Buells.

Currently developing a Boxer for FX.

N8!

Old 01-26-2006, 12:23 PM
  Pelican Parts Catalog | Tech Articles | Promos & Specials    Reply With Quote #20 (permalink)
Reply


 


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:55 AM.


 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page
 

DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.