Welding outfit recommendations

[pwillikers]

I'm gonna buy an arc welder and would like recommendations. I've welded in jobs I've had it the distant past but not recently. in general, Harbor Freight has tools some of which are reasonable quality and some that are craptacular. What about this 110V MIG welder or 220V MIG welder or 220V TIG welder ?

My requirements are, in loose priority order:[list=1][*]weld steel, steel alloys (stainless) and aluminum[*]weld thicknesses of less than .25" stock, nothing really big [*]reasonable cost, very occasional use[*]prefer 110V[/list=1]Questions:[list=1][*]which voltage? 110 or 220?[*]MIG vs TIG? MIG is harder to master? Limitations?[*]Manufacturers? Models? Avoid Harbor Freight like the plague?[/list=1]

Thanks.

[bikpaintr]

No experience with any of those rigs but I can't imagine that you would get anything but aggrevation out of a Mig/Tig in that price range. I paid $1300 for my Mig 20 years ago & its still running great & wasn't top of the line at the time.

[JonyRR]

wow! a TIG for $199.99. hmmm...let's see here..a genuine millermatic squarewave tig starts at $2500.00. My experience w/ harbor freight is you get what you pay for.
Take a look at a henrob 2000:
http://www.cut-like-plasma.com
I've got a henrob and it does good work; like any welder regardless of regeime, it's the person on the torch that counts the most. practice, practice, practice...

[StuartOstroff]

I've been welding for a million years and taught quite a few, including my son.

Stick welding is basic and least expensive. You can weld most metals including stainless, but not aluminum (very well) with a stick welder. An AC/DC machine is preferred as the weld quality with DC will be better, particualrly with thinner materials. You could get an AC/DC machine for 3-500. The better machines will be more expensive.

MIG is best for high production work and is used in many sheet metal and body shops. The filler metal is fed thru the torch, either from a large spool in the machine or a small spool in a hand-held feeder. Most metals can be MIG welded and it is pretty easy to learn. But the weld quality can be less than desired. The bead can be made to look good but there's no guarantee that the penetration is adequate. Normally a shielding gas is used, so you must buy or rent a tank. A gas regulator is typically included with the machine.

TIG (also known as Heliarc) is the most precise welding process, can be done with a wide range of metals, including aluminum. In many ways it is like gas welding. The torch uses a non-consumable tungsten electrode and a filler metal is manually added. The equipment is the most expensive, requires gas for shielding so you need to purchase or rent a tank of at least one type of gas. At least one regulator is required, often several for different gases. Generally CO2 is for carbon steel and straight argon is required for aluminum. Often a mixture is used for carbon and stainless steels for the best quality. It is possible to weld very thin materials with the best looking joint. Most of the aircraft and precise welding is done with the TIG process. Figure some time for learning.

Stuart Ostroff

[Bart_dood]

I've used a few MIG's, don't bother with the gasless wire, use real gas it works better (argon or argon Co2).

Pratice on some scrap metal, you should pick it up easy, you should be ok with a welder with 90amps or more.

[davidb2]

Looking at your reqirements. you will have to buy a tig machine. and rent gas bottles. aluminum wire feed(mig) usually requires a separate spool gun to pull the soft aluminum wire through the tip in order to have a decent weld. The first 1/2 inch of the wire feed aluminum weld usually does not have good penitration. So if you are going to weld on motorcycle frames and parts, you need a tig machine. plus you can put down the most pretty looking stainless welds and custom parts for your friends harleys. they don't mind the weight of stainless. (30 years experiance here).

[shovelstrokeed]

Go with the Miller EconoTig. Nice little box and 2K will probably get you all you need. It will do stick or Tig and both AC and DC so welding aluminum which requires AC and a pretty good dose of amperage is nicely accomodated. Does take a bit of practice before you will get good welds. I actually find it harder to get a nice weld with stick than tig but that's mostly cause of shakey hands.

BTW, any long duty cycle welding on aluminum is going to require a water cooled gun, figure another 300 or so.

[JonyRR]

'Nice little box and 2K will probably get you all you need.'
see...every genuine tig machine I've ever contemplated buying STARTED at 2K 'merikan. Started is the operative phrase here; with a watercooled torch, argon bottle, good regulator, etc/ad nasueam, you will be at 3K...three thousand dollars, and there IS no substitute if you want the absolute best. BUT...the henrob (linked above) DOES do 90% of what I want it to do in a supurb fashion for under 600.00...and that's with all the goodies, including a bottle and regulator. (I DO use a shielding gas on aluminum; the henrob folks say it's not necessary and I have done 'luminum without it, but my results are much better with shielding gas). as always, YMMV. as has been pointed out above, practice, regardless of equip[ment, is what produces the best weld...but yoou DO need quality gear as well. Good luck

[CARacic]

Are there any community colleges near you that offer welding? If so, spend some time, learn using their toys, and start talking to people, you may find what you want used. The problem you have is that you don't have the practice of welding yourself to determine if the harbor freight welders are ok for you. My experiences are that welding steel with arc or mig is fairly easy, aluminum is difficult, or maybe I just haven't gotten the feel for it. I will say one thing, the ability to weld, no matter the level of your expertise is very satisfying

[badger]

Originally posted by Bart_dood
I've used a few MIG's, don't bother with the gasless wire, use real gas it works better (argon or argon Co2).

One caveat here: If you have to do your welding outside (think tractor in the field, broken down manure spreader, etc), Flux core wire for the mig is essential. Shielding gas will quickly blow away and you'll be there all day. 110 is nice for this kind of work. Generator, flux core and Mig unit: get back to baling, mowing, ****spreading, whatever.

[RoundelRider]

I cant weld for ****, BUT...........

Have ya seen Snap-On's welding truck???? A full truck for nothing but welders, and a big grounded table you can test equipment on with sides make of dark welders glass so other can watch how things work. Well worth a peek if you can get in one sometime!

BTW.......they have some nice stuff and I assume its made by some of the companies listed above (total guess)

Just my 2 cents!

[AndrewA]

The only welding I've done is with a 12v battery, some jumper cables, and a cheap screw driver. Seems to do a fairly good job of laying down tacks.

This set-up also is handy if I find myself without a lighter or matches to light a cigar - simply run some heavey guage wire across the battery posts until they glow orange.

[tm1100s]

Might as well throw in my $.02.

A few years back I needed a welding outfit and after looking around, I ended up with a Lincoln MIG Weldpak125, added the gas kit, and found this to be pretty good for welding stuff I wasn't gonna bet my life on. Professional welders are for that. Anyway, it's nice to be able to stick two pieces of metal together when you need it right now. Lincoln has Weldpak units and SP-xxx units. The SP are sold through dealers and the Weldpaks through other places (Home Depot, Sears, etc). The numbers are different but the specs are the same for the different units. I never tried aluminum with this unit, but the dealers say it very hard because the aluminum wire won't feed reliably unless the gun and tube are stretched out perfectly straight. Even then, it's tough. If you have any intention of welding aluminum, get a TIG. The 125 I have is a 130 amp unit and will do up to 3/16 just fine. Any thicker and the work has to be prepared a little better and will need two, maybe three passes. Penetration with 130 amps is fair. The thinner the metal with this unit, the better. Over the years, I settled in on .023 wire and CO/Argon gas. Good for all-around metal-melting. I alway have my eye open for a used TIG system at a good price. Someone on the board bought a TIG from Harbor Freight, let us know how it works please.

I picked up the welder from a company called National Welders Supply ( www.nwsco.com ) in Charlotte. At the time they had good prices, but what I found out is that they did a lot of NASCAR stuff and at some of the races they had welding clinics where anyone could come in and try the equipment and learn some basics. The good thing is Lincoln was involved in this, so all the equipment was new stuff but even better was that after the demos, they packed up the equipment and blew them out as used units at considerable discount after only a couple hours use. Might be worth a call to this company if you had something in mind. And also check the Lincoln site. They used to have a section where they sold demo equipment, too. If I remember, the Lincoln site was mostly high end stuff.

A little long-winded, sorry.

[JonyRR]

no substitute for a miller 2500 square-wave TIG, of course, but then you're paying for what you're getting, and do you plan on getting a ROI out of a 3K+ welder? I did the math and so far my henrob has done just fine. This tab for the ohlins preload adjuster was done via henrob...

[pwillikers]

The Harbor Freight TIG welder went on sale again, reduced to $200 from $300 and I received an emailed 20% off coupon "for any one item" from HF which yielded a final price of $160. I figured if I can use it to practice and learn I can upgrade if I'm using it enough. It's only $160. ferchrissake.


Thus far, I've only been stick welding, DC, since I haven't yet bought an Argon flow/regulator for TIG, I do have a tank though. My trailer project has become a "Welding 101" lab. Initially, my welds were pretty sloppy. But I'm getting better. Here's an example of a horizontal weld in the raw:

and painted:
.

I haven't yet gotten the technique down for vertical welds. They're much harder to control and end up pretty droopy. I've accumulated a bunch of aluminum stock so I'll soon pick up a regulator and try my hand at TIG on AL.

All in all, I'm very happy with the el-cheapo welder from HF. The jury is out 'til I get the TIG outfit up and running but as I said, very happy and having much fabricating fun!

[roger albert]

Cool Nice learning project.
How was the trackday?

[pwillikers]

By the time I attempted to sign up it was full. I was doubly disappointed because they ran it on the new track at Cresson which looks very, very tight and has much altitude variation. It looks challenging and fun. I'm anxious to try it.

Ready for 4/15?